BF3 triggerpullweight.

A while ago I mentioned that a trigger-pull-delay stat would really help balance some weapons TTK times and also be realistic as far as bullpup weapons were concerned.

Well I just noticed that the latest patch for PC had a TriggerPullWeight stat included in it that Symthic found. here: http://symthic.com/f/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37&hilit=updates&start=0

probably not a delay in ms, but probably a stat that measures how far in you have to pull the trigger before it fires. If that's the case the bullpups (F2k, Famas etc...) could have theres changed to a full depress to help fine tune them more.

I find this interesting because I've been arguing for a balancing tool like this since Mw2.

I'm curious to find out what this metric does exactly.

Why on earth would they decrease the effectiveness of Vehicle Stealth

I don't see how this would work. Mouse input is either off or on, it doesn't have pressure sensitivity like the triggers on a controller.


Edit: I could see it as a delay in the first shot being fired, but that's it.

Ante wrote:I don't see how this would work. Mouse input is either off or on, it doesn't have pressure sensitivity like the triggers on a controller.


Edit: I could see it as a delay in the first shot being fired, but that's it.

Good point. I didn't even consider that PC players are using a mouse. Personally a delay to the first shot fired is exactly how I would do it. The numbers they use for this stat couldn't be in seconds though...

Wait I dont get it. What is triggerpullwheight?

Metalzoic wrote:

Ante wrote:I don't see how this would work. Mouse input is either off or on, it doesn't have pressure sensitivity like the triggers on a controller.


Edit: I could see it as a delay in the first shot being fired, but that's it.

Good point. I didn't even consider that PC players are using a mouse. Personally a delay to the first shot fired is exactly how I would do it. The numbers they use for this stat couldn't be in seconds though...

But just imagine if it was.....






Could be an arbitrary number that translates into ms somewhere else in the code.

Cicero wrote:Wait I dont get it. What is triggerpullwheight?

It's most likely a small delay between when you pull the trigger and when your gun starts firing.




>See enemy
>Pull trigger
>4ms after I pull the trigger, the gun begins to shoot


It's a way to simulate the time it would take your soldier to press the trigger in far enough for the gun to fire. I wonder if we'll get trigger pull animations with this?

Why would that make you sad? It could be a good thing. You can slightly curb the higher RoF weapons TTK. Since most of those are bullpups then the delay would be realistic as heavy, notchy trigger pulls can be a characteristic of that design.

Just one more tool to balance things.

Wait, who's sad? I like this change. Anything to add more personality to the weapons is a-ok in my book.

hmm yeah it would help balance...

I mean as of right now there's no reason to use anything besides the M4 as engy,famas or f2000 as assault,m27 as support or usas+frag rounds MLG combo

JrTapia1991 wrote:hmm yeah it would help balance...

I mean as of right now there's no reason to use anything besides the M4 as engy,famas or f2000 as assault,m27 as support or usas+frag rounds MLG combo

This is more a problem with attachments than the guns themselves. Foregrip + suppressor makes just about any combo MLGprohax. Honestly, with those two on a carbine, MW3 guns have more recoil.

Honestly I see all the guns in the assault and engineer class as being so similar (exception of Scar, G3, and AN94), that what really matters are the attachments im using. Yes there is a small variance in recoil pattern, but other than that theyre all very similar.

for example... M16A3, M16A4, M416, AEK, F2000, AK74M, and the L85 all have a performance range within 5% of each other. I'd say that the FAMAS and KH2002 are maybe 10% better than the rest of the pack, as long as youre using the right attachment setup.

for engineer guns... M4A1, G36C, A-91, AKS74, G53, and the SG553 are all so similar in performance. None of them have any sort of situational advantages. Scar is bad now, and I havent used the QBZ-95B so i cant really talk about it.

Same goes for PDWs, Bolt actions, and semi auto rifles. the only guns that have any sort of variety are the LMGs, with the M240 and PKP being much more useful with a bipod.

Hopefully they'll use these trigger weights to maybe distinguish the guns a bit from each other

i agree with that zillah

as for the qbz-95b... it has a lower ROF but it shoots lasers

the only gun that was OP was the scar and now its garbage

i think people just say guns like the FAMAS and USAS with FR are OP simply because everyone and their cousin uses them.

getting killed by the same thing is annoying but it doesn't make the gun OP

maybe somehow this new metric will balance things up a bit so bad players can't rely on guns like the USAS

absolutely no one on gamefaqs knows the difference between an annoying gun and an over powered gun. FAMAS isnt overpowered, its just slightly better than the rest of the pack... slightly.

frag rounds, maybe over powered. increase the spread and theyd be fine.

its funny that im saying this though, because those two guns are the only two guns that I have over 2 kpm with. placebo effect.

i use the usas without frag rounds when i'm just messing around

i did use the famas for a bit when B2K came out but i got bored using it

currently i enjoy the AEK and the G53

ill admit... Usas with frag rounds is FUN >_>

Zillah wrote:absolutely no one on gamefaqs knows the difference between an annoying gun and an over powered gun. FAMAS isnt overpowered, its just slightly better than the rest of the pack... slightly.

frag rounds, maybe over powered. increase the spread and theyd be fine.

its funny that im saying this though, because those two guns are the only two guns that I have over 2 kpm with. placebo effect.

Some people swear the FAMAS OHKs.

I don't...what?

the famas just pours out bullets faster than other guns but i read that the AEK may get a ROF buff

people say OHK but it's just the ping and bad hit detection which makes it seem like OHK

PC AN-94. Everyone cry together now.

The fact that the Famas shoots so fast isnt soley an advantage... good luck killing more than one person with a single mag. add the long reload time to that, and then its not as great as it seems on paper

There is only one time when I whine about the FAMAS and thats if I square off with someone and they kill me with 5% health left. Thats the ONLY time you have a legit complaint.

AEK getting a RoF buff?

Isn't it already at 900? If it is they can't change it because that's what it should be.
By all means makes small tweaks, differences and adjustments for balance, but I draw the line at making shit up.

Metalzoic wrote:AEK getting a RoF buff?

Isn't it already at 900? If it is they can't change it because that's what it should be.
By all means makes small tweaks, differences and adjustments for balance, but I draw the line at making shit up.

People riding on MAVs, tanks with infinite ammo, magic mortars.... yeah. There's plenty of blatantly made up stuff in BF3.

Ante wrote:

Metalzoic wrote:AEK getting a RoF buff?

Isn't it already at 900? If it is they can't change it because that's what it should be.
By all means makes small tweaks, differences and adjustments for balance, but I draw the line at making shit up.

People riding on MAVs, tanks with infinite ammo, magic mortars.... yeah. There's plenty of blatantly made up stuff in BF3.

That stuff slightly different Ante, usually they keep the guns somewhat true to form.

Eh, who's to say the AEK wasn't modified to have a slightly higher ROF in the near future. BF3 doesn't take place in 2012, does it?

Ante wrote:Eh, who's to say the AEK wasn't modified to have a slightly higher ROF in the near future. BF3 doesn't take place in 2012, does it?

Hipster Ante strikes again!! lol

I suppose but you could say that about all these guns then. Whats the point of having "real" guns if you don't use the specs for em.

Evil Terry wrote:

Ante wrote:Eh, who's to say the AEK wasn't modified to have a slightly higher ROF in the near future. BF3 doesn't take place in 2012, does it?

Hipster Ante strikes again!! lol

I suppose but you could say that about all these guns then. Whats the point of having "real" guns if you don't use the specs for em.

All the guns should be replaced with Moonraker lasers.

You have had a lot of terrible ideas before that one Ante, but somehow you've redeemed yourself. Well done sir! lol

Metalzoic wrote:AEK getting a RoF buff?

Isn't it already at 900? If it is they can't change it because that's what it should be.
By all means makes small tweaks, differences and adjustments for balance, but I draw the line at making shit up.

its in your link

AN-94 ->
Upwards recoil 0.75 - 0.45
Burst RoF 900 - 1200
Left -0.2 - 0.2
Right 0.2 - 0.3

Manila Plague wrote:

Metalzoic wrote:AEK getting a RoF buff?

Isn't it already at 900? If it is they can't change it because that's what it should be.
By all means makes small tweaks, differences and adjustments for balance, but I draw the line at making shit up.

its in your link

AN-94 ->
Upwards recoil 0.75 - 0.45
Burst RoF 900 - 1200
Left -0.2 - 0.2
Right 0.2 - 0.3

That's the AN-94, not the AEK? Or am I missing something? That's also a step towards more realistic. The AN-94 fires at 1900 RPM (holy shit, that is really fucking fast) in burst mode IRL, right?

no i just woke up and i am seeing things ante... lol

i was just about to correct myself but hipster ante strikes to fast

I do my best Plague.

hey at least i don't try to cover up my fails

I am proud of each and every one

the only gun that was OP was the scar and now its garbage

the only gun that was OP was the scar

It was never OP; the three shot kill was literally its only redeeming quality.

That's why it should, along with the 240, M60, and G3, get un-nerfed.

/rant

The SCAR was never too bad. It was quite good, but nothing gamebreaking.

I've never had a problem killing more than one person per mag in the FAMAS.I quit using it because I felt I was cheating >__> ...I never even like to play assault anymore really.Either support or engy for me

because of it's ROF and it's so easy to unlock,it's spammed alot with front grip+silencer for an insta kill no recoil weapon >__> same with F2000

not game breaking,just annoying as hell when enemy teams only use Famas,F2000,or USAS+Frags

ever since usas+frags took off,I never see RPG spamming on grand bazaar really anymore haha since now you can be a mobile tank

The AEK is better than the F2000 since the last patch iirc

i think dice just got lazy

all guns have the same damage... wtf is up with that

i still think the scar was a bit OP but it had some character

Manila Plague wrote:i think dice just got lazy

all guns have the same damage... wtf is up with that

i still think the scar was a bit OP but it had some character

Yeah I'm not sure how they envisioned this damage model working. Especially with the foregrip and so on.

yeah I was looking at the damage charts and stuff and every gun is pretty much the same....just reskins I guess

JrTapia1991 wrote:yeah I was looking at the damage charts and stuff and every gun is pretty much the same....just reskins I guess

ROF and recoil pattern. thats the only difference in about 80% of them

which is dumb terry...

i'd personally go with the more accurate gun with a tight spread over high damage and high ROF

there is a lack of variety and i find myself changing guns all the time just cause i'm bored of the looks

dice need to stop trying to go after the COD demographic

Manila Plague wrote:which is dumb terry...

i'd personally go with the more accurate gun with a tight spread over high damage and high ROF

there is a lack of variety and i find myself changing guns all the time just cause i'm bored of the looks

dice need to stop trying to go after the COD demographic

pretty much my thoughts exactly man...

I don't like to run and gun up close anyway,I try to kinda play DMR role but maps are so tiny most of the time it doesn't work out and on big maps it's so sparsely spread out I barely see anybody the whole match

I think jets were a real letdown too.I agree I really wish tanks and vehicles had a certain amount of ammo.

Well, if the weapons are too unique, it becomes less about player skill and more about who has the better weapon for that situation, a la Halo or UT. Not saying Halo or UT don't take skill, but they are vastly different games, where your weapon choice and the situations you put yourself in relation to that choice in are 10x more important than in BF.

My point is that I think lack of any big differences in the weapons is okay in a game like BF.

Just my two cents.

JrTapia1991 wrote:I've never had a problem killing more than one person per mag in the FAMAS.I quit using it because I felt I was cheating >__> ...I never even like to play assault anymore really.Either support or engy for me

because of it's ROF and it's so easy to unlock,it's spammed alot with front grip+silencer for an insta kill no recoil weapon >__> same with F2000

not game breaking,just annoying as hell when enemy teams only use Famas,F2000,or USAS+Frags

ever since usas+frags took off,I never see RPG spamming on grand bazaar really anymore haha since now you can be a mobile tank

JrTapia1991 wrote:yeah I was looking at the damage charts and stuff and every gun is pretty much the same....just reskins I guess

Wat. One contradicts the other.