Hey Sym, or any other metal junkies....I got a question for you.

How come inside the metal genre community, why is it that anyone who listens to anything but death or black metal is instantly hated?
Like why is it that only in the metal community people who listen to various genres of metal not related to the above are just despised?

Like in the rock genre community its really laid back for example. Like it doesn't really matter if you listen to Alternative rock, or Glam, or whatever. Sure you might get mocked if the bands you mention suck, but you won't usually get mocked for that particular genre.

Yet in the metal community if you listen to anything other then Death, Thrash, Black or Doom you just instantly are hated.
You mention you listen to those and you just get responses like:
"Oh, you listen to symphonic metal? Go fuck yourself asshole!" "Oh you like power metal? Wow your tastes must be horribly generic you stupid ass, go drown yourself ******".

Now I can understand the hate against NuMetal, but it just seems like in the metal community people are big dicks about anything that doesn't have fast, heavy drumming, insane guitar riffs, or almost un-understandable lyrics.

In the rock community you might get teased for saying you like Alternative Rock. But other then that, no one cares. Now if they asked you your favorite band and you said a crappy one like The Killers over someone like The Offspring, you might get berated. But still not to the point like a metal fan would do.

I've met some metalheads that are the most pretentious, stuck up douchebags I have ever seen. It's because the metal genre as a whole is just a big dick wagging contest. If it isn't "brutal," it's shit, and your musical tastes are shit.

That being said, not all metal fans are like this, but a fair portion are.

Ill have to add to this later

Ive got to go get a root canal but Ill give you a long answer later

Also its not fair to say all metal fans are that way

Metalheads are very passionate and opinionated about their love of metal. That coupled with the fact that there are tons of metal sub-genres (20+) that can be VERY different from each other. I think it's these large difference gaps that can be the cause of some hate between metal fans. Especially if your "conception" of what's "metal" doesn't coincide with someone else's "conception" of it.

Let's take Stoner Metal and Tech Death for example. These two genres are pretty much opposites.

Stoner is all about slow, droning, simple riffs with clean vocals (most of the time). Tech Death is all about speed, brutality, complexity with screamy type vocals (most of the time)

The difference between these two sub-genres is more like the difference between Metal and Rock rather than the difference between Alt Rock and Hard Rock or something like that. It's just pretty hard to compare the two.

I think that's why you'll get hate once in awhile. Metal's sub-genres have developed so much that they are pretty much genres on to themselves and fans of x,y and z might not necessarily like a,b and c and vice versa.

If you haven't already seen it I recommend taking a look at the documentary "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey". It'll give you some perspective on the history of metal and the metal community as a whole. It also goes in depth into some of the sub-genres and will show you some of the intricacies there.

The movie is done from a sort of Anthropological point of view. It's a must watch for any fan of metal as far as I'm concerned.

Sym wrote:Also its not fair to say all metal fans are that way

Yeah I'll have to agree with Sym on this. That's kind of an unfair generalization. Yes there are Metal fans that only cling to their one or two sub-genres and every other piece of music that doesn't fall into that is shit. But you also get metalheads that are into a myriad of things. I'd say I run into alot more metalheads that are seriously into classical music than your average joe on the street because they value rich and complex music and good musicianship.

I dunno, I guess because they're really passionate about it or something. I mostly like metalcore like Killswitch Engage,etc. and melodic stuff

This is honestly 1% of the scene. Frankly, pretentious douchebags are to be found in any music scene. Sometimes it can be blamed on age and other times people are just dicks. As for death metal and grind communities, they are generally laid back and the "if you ain't brutal you ain't shit" couldn't be farther from the truth.

Also, metalheads tend to be people that like to rip on people from my experience. It don't mean anything.

Oh no, I wasn't trying to imply that the entre metal community was like that.

Hell ive seen it in the rock community and even the country community as well. But its just sooo..... much more....prevalent in the metal community then any other.

Shotgun Dismemberment wrote:This is honestly 1% of the scene. Frankly, pretentious douchebags are to be found in any music scene. Sometimes it can be blamed on age and other times people are just dicks.

It's usually this. I like metal, and I'll listen to many of the sub genres of it, but I'm not quite as passionate about it as say Hydra and Sym. I'd make fun of anyone for the music they listen to, as I'm sure people would generally do the same, whether we listen to some of the same bands or not in different genres. I do understand what you're saying though, but I'd really have to agree with Greg on what he said about the age and people just being dicks.

If you don't listen to just Slam then you're gay....





























Heh. But it's mostly on the internet that you find the kind of elitists your talking about Soap.

Ok I could write a book on this, man.

Im about as big a metal head as there is on this planet, and have been since I was a little child.

Let me brainstorm a good post as TBH its going to be HUGE

- Metal is more the a genre of music, its a lifestyle and a culture. For people like me, that culture is one of the most important things in the world

- Its a VERY small, VERY tight knit community,

- Its about much more than the music

- You have bands that claim metal all the time that are not ( ex Bullet for my Valentine, Slipknot etc )

- People think these said bands are metal ( like how people think of horrible Killswitch)(sorry guys cant stand them) and them claim metal as an interest even though they know NOTHING about the genre and the lifestyle

- This causes a rift in the community as of how tight knit we are

- The internet has made the vocal few MUCH more noticable

- Metal musicians pride themselves on actually being competent at playing an instrument ( as I do, woot ) so its a punch in the dick seeing all these bands with NO musical talent whatsoever getting all the love

- Metal is EASILY the most musically accomplished, and technical genre of music in the world, not even a debate. And we pride ourselves on that.

- We have a love of our music that few if any other genre can understand, its a brotherhood

- Naturally when you have people come into your community thinking they know everything when they actually know VERY little is going to be pretty annoying( this happens all the time in metal, I mean all the fucking time )

I could think of alot more reasons, and Ill add them as I do.

But I do agree we are a very exclusive bunch, you have to pay your dues and you need to understand the genre and how it works to be fully accepted into the community. Most fans of bands that are not really metal fall directly into this category.

OH AND DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!!!!!!!

- You have bands that claim metal all the time that are not ( ex Bullet for my Valentine, Slipknot etc )

This pisses me off and I barely even like metal. Those bands just suck... actually any band that uses breakdowns over soloes doesnt even deserve to be called rock much less metal. That genre should just be called shit.


- Metal musicians pride themselves on actually being competent at playing an instrument ( as I do, woot ) so its a punch in the dick seeing all these bands with NO musical talent whatsoever getting all the love

True

- Metal is EASILY the most musically accomplished, and technical genre of music in the world, not even a debate. And we pride ourselves on that.

No. I mean, jazz, classical music, and a lot of classic rock legends are just as technically accomplished and good at writing songs/solos.

- We have a love of our music that few if any other genre can understand, its a brotherhood

I have a friend who can tell you the members, birthdays, playing styles, and 5 interesting facts about every classic rock band formed between 1965 and 1980. Or have you ever talked to some dedicated bank geeks, or someone majoring in a certain instrument, or electronic music producers... they're some pretty obsessive people out there. You really can't just say any one community loves music more than anyone else.



OH AND DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!!!!!!!

If this means fuck slipknot and avenged sevenfold hell yes

There is some jazz fusion and blues that pushes the technical boundaries, but usually only from the guitar perspective.

Metal pushes those boundaries in every way possible, which is really what I meant.

And the love of the genre is in general, man. There is going to be an exception to every rule. Ive yet to find any fan base of any genre as passionate as long time/real metal fans.

Duck wrote:

- Metal is EASILY the most musically accomplished, and technical genre of music in the world, not even a debate. And we pride ourselves on that.

No. I mean, jazz, classical music, and a lot of classic rock legends are just as technically accomplished and good at writing songs/solos.

Everything except this I agree with. But saying that metal on a whole is more "musically accomplished" is crap. This is no disrespect to metal, or to metal musicians, but there is no possible way to say that ANY genre is more musically accomplished than another. Classical is probably a competitor for this, since anything that can possibly be done on a classical instrument has been done. Itzak Perlman is a big name in the classical community, and while his music may be light and flowing as opposed to "brutal" and loud, he's still just as good a musician if not better than any metal player. The same goes for literally EVERY other genre. Each has good and bad players, and saying that one as a whole is better than the others is just silly.

Also, I disagree with "fuck Avenged Sevenfold" I'm not a fan at all but I like listening to Beast and the Harlot while swordfighting.

Lmao

Id love for you to show me some music that can touch the hundred of bands I listen to

Not to toot my own horn but Im a rather accomplished guitarist so I do know a thing or two about this subject

As I said Jazz fusion and some blues are the only genres that come close to touching the technical marvel that is quality metal.

Rock? no

Pop? lmao

Rap and R and B ? LMAO WTF

Most blues? lolno

I've gotta agree with Pariah here...

What can make a genre technically superior? Because they can play through scales fastly and in rhythm?

Because it's hard to play?

While you do make some very valid points, I don't outright disagree with any of them, just don't fully agree.

For starters the whole genre of rock is a pretty long lasting community, and maybe even possibly more so then Metal. Now as small or as tight knit, I don't believe Rock is anywhere near that status. But i really don't believe that metal is as small as you claim, tight knit maybe, but def not small.
But still even coming from that, it does seem like the rock community has a lot more tolerance to someone who listens to.....say Lordi, then the metal community does for someone who listens to Killswitch.
But I do get what your saying at how people consider those bands metal, or great metal, when they're clearly not. It happens all the time in the rock community as well.

And that does make sense how the internet makes the more vocal ones louder. That does happen with basically everything, from random fandoms to even music genre communities. So that does make a lot of sense.
But the same could be said of rock or country communities, you just rarely see it.

I don't play an instrument, despite really wanting to learn the guitar/paino/banjo. So this I really can't comment on for starters. But I really don't see what playing an instrument competently in the metal genre really makes you technically superior or anything to musicians in other genres. I could easily point out countless rock guitarists that know techniques and methods that could play circles around some from your genre. And you could very well do the same to me.
What im saying is, its all subjective. Playing fast and loud and furious doesn't make you better then someone who can play long technical rock solos, and vice versa.
But I do agree with you on how irratating it is to have people who have no instrumental knowledge come in and act like they know everything about the genre. But then again, just because you know how to play an instrument doesn't mean you know more then someone who doesn't, but understands the strengths and convictions that playing an instrument requires.

While I agree that metal is a very well accomplished genre, saying your the most accomplished is pretty arrogant. There are bands in the rock genre who have accomplished things that the most accomplished metal band could only dream about, and vice versa.

But other then that you made some VERY valid points. I do hate it though about what you said about some new person coming in and thinking they know everything. My sister is a prime example. She believes A7X is the greatest metal band ever!!!! And outright hates most music if it doesn't have a guitar in it.

I can't stand listening to Bruce Springsteen, or Creedance Clearwater Revival, The Eagles, or Bob Dylan when she in my car. Last week we were listening to Springsteen on the way to Wal-Mart, and she asked what genre he was. I said rock. Her exact words were "What? No, im sorry. This. IS. NOT. ROCK.". That song ends and another song starts playing, still by Springsteen. And it opens up with him wailing on an electric guitar. She looks back at me, starts bobbing her head arrogantly, and says "Yeaaaaah, now this....this is rock."

EDIT: I only looked at your message once Sym. So everything I typed was just going off of memory since I was too lazy to scroll up...

I dont think you guys understand what musical technicality is

Not trying to be a dick, just calling it like I see it.

Soap Ill read your post when I come back from the bar

I submit to you classical violin or classical piano as a genre. To be even passably good you have to be extremely technical. To play an exact version of some of the most well known pieces in the world. Gaspard de la Nuit is a well known piece, often considered to be the most difficult to learn on piano. Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto no. 2 is also astoundingly technical and difficult to play on a piano, and it's considered a higher level violin to boot.

Also, since we're "calling it like I see it" now, I'll just toss in.

Yes, metal is impressive. But just because it's your own preferred genre doesn't make it better than any others.

i'm not all that impressed by technical skill. Yngwie Malmsteem is pretty far up there as far as being technically skilled goes and I still think he sucks compared to Eric Johnson or Joe Satriani just because they write songs that are more interesting to listen to.

Sym wrote:I dont think you guys understand what musical technicality is

Not trying to be a dick, just calling it like I see it.

It's just a concept that baffles me. I feel like technicality doesn't have much of a place in music, as it's not an exact science or anything that you can perfect.

I mean someone can write the hardest song ever to play, but it could still sound like shit.

And given that music is the most subjective thing on the planet, you couldn't possibly say it has to be difficult and sound good to require technical proficiency. Regardless of how good of a track you think something is, there is someone out there on this planet that thinks it sounds like nothing more than noise. And vice versa.

is this technical?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HgOBbky39FU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

no. far from it, but i don't listen to music because of how hard it is to play, i listen because i enjoy it. feelings are more important than skill in music. you could play the fastest metal (or any other genre) song in the world, in the most skilled way imaginable, but if it has no soul it can fuck off... i'll take Finley Quaye every time.

soul >>>>> skill.

yeah but well done guitar solos are fucking awesome.

Duck wrote:yeah but well done guitar solos are fucking awesome.

same with well done violin, piano, cello, bass, drum, and viola solos. Have you ever listened to a skilled violinist playing a solo piece? Usually classical musicians get a bum wrap, since they have to play sectional pieces, but solo pieces are fucking amazing if done right. And piano on it's own is impressive.

I like keyboard and violin and bass but the electric guitar was the center piece of the rock revolution. There's been an incredible amount of work done to make guitar solos sound awesome over the past 50 years and it shows.

Duck wrote:I like keyboard and violin and bass but the electric guitar was the center piece of the rock revolution. There's been an incredible amount of work done to make guitar solos sound awesome over the past 50 years and it shows.

Violin has been around since the 16th century. Guitar has improved drastically over a smaller period of time, but all that guitar has done has already been tried on a violin.

the electric violin was invented after the electric guitar and most of the cool shit done on guitar requires magnetic pickups to sound like anything more than an ant tap dancing on a paper plate.

I once went to a concert where a guy was using a boot with a pickup in it as an instrument.

It was sweet.

were there strings on it or was he just flicking the boot or osmething?

He was just tapping it, playing it like a drum.

Same dude puts a pickup in a handsaw and plays it like a violin. Which actually somehow sounds amazing.

thats pretty cool. Does he put a bow across the saw?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qMf-em-56Mc?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Duck wrote:were there strings on it or was he just flicking the boot or osmething?

Huge saws are often used to make thunder effects in movies.

Duck wrote:thats pretty cool. Does he put a bow across the saw?

Yeah.

There are actually quite a few videos of it on youtube.


Starts playing the saw with a bow at about 3:50.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hFyv6t3OS3c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sigh

Technicality is NOT subjective.

You cannot debate technical skill

Its not subjective like music itself

As a whole I stand by my statement.

Also metal is classical music, Id say 85% is based on classical scales.

The only difference is the aggression and added percussion