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 » The Lounge » Archives » Smoke hand grenades and flash bangs, yes or no?

Smoke hand grenades and flash bangs, yes or no?

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Cookie Monster
Duck
Zillah
Khfan60
MEGA MILK
Ante
StormEye
TheGM
Leeroy_Jenkins!!!!11
Artimise Flare
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Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

Smoke can be very very useful when used properly. There have been times when I have found myself wishing I had a smoke grenade launcher instead of say the shotgun or 40mm grenade launcher. Flash bangs would be good for those cases where you need to enter a building like in Rush or when you're assaulting a flag that's being captures in a building.

I believe the smoke launcher should be removed and replaced with a standard smoke grenade with the option to switch it for flashbangs much like in RBS and COD. Hear me out though, all classes will get this, support and assault players will just get an extra amount of them perhaps. You can carry one tactical grenades be it smoke or flashes, and one standard frag as an engineer, medic or recon. Improved grenade pouches allows the user to carry one extra of each. Support may only carry three tactical grenades to emphasis on their support role with improved grenade pouches, 2 tactical grenades if not. Assault players will carry 1 tactical grenade and two frag grenades, again to emphasis on their role as an aggressive class 2 tactical and three frags with pouches. Hopefully BF3 will slow down the health regen or make it so that you can only regen a percentage of your life after taking fire (25% maybe up from wherever your health was brought down to, and it defend at half the rate a med pack would heal you for?)

Recon players might I suggest may get a different grenade besides flash bangs. They get 1 special smoke grenade that allows them and their squadmates to spawn on it. Only friendly players can see it, and it MUST be in a location that can be accessed on the ground, this means you can't use it inside a building or under a bridge. Kind of like a location that you'd be able to access via parachute or helicopter drop. (no exploiting by getting on top of buildings and stuff like in 2142). This grenade lasts up to a minute or two, and has an absurd resupply time. Improved grenades does not effect the amount you can carry of these.

Thoughts? I had other ideas regarding this, but they've slipped my mind. May post them later if they come back. Discuss please

Guest


Guest

No. Same beef I have with motion sensors, in a shooter game there should not be some gadget/tool that increases your odds of winning a gunfight, other than player skill which is more concept than anything.

it'd be stupid.

Leeroy_Jenkins!!!!11

Leeroy_Jenkins!!!!11

Sorry for my small, undetailed (Firefox says I didn't spell that correctly. Strange.) response, but I think flash grenades would be cool if they weren't as good as in CoD. Grammar fail? Oh well, you can probably understand me.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

To balance this so there isn't so much grenade spam, perhaps make it so it resupplies slow like c4? Tactical grenades at least, the current set up for frag grenades I think is fine, they are still useful, but not stupidly op. Further more the player will give up optics for the increased amount of grenades he or she can carry.

Guest


Guest

If they resupplied slowly nothing would really change in regards to their balance as they'd still be spammable (unlike C4 you wouldn't need multiple flash/stun grenades to be effective). I would really rather not play a shooter game where someone can randomly blind or disorient me in some way and then attempt to kill me, automatically giving every advantage to him without factoring in whose the better player, especially considering we're talking about Battlefield where the focus isn't around killing and grouped in squads that shit could become insanely annoying.

Smoke grenades I agree with since Assaults never use them and they're damn effective.

TheGM

TheGM

I'm all for Smoke. Problem is they replace my Grenade launcher and disapate to fast.

Smoke has its uses....to bad people never use it.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

Well ok, I see your point with flash grenades. What about flares? In some of those night maps, it can be very difficult to see, adding flares into the mix might add a different level of tactics to dark maps?

Leeroy_Jenkins!!!!11

Leeroy_Jenkins!!!!11

I'm not sure if we'll even get night maps. I hope we do, though.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

This is the thing though, smoke nades would allow an assault user to have either the 40mm grenade launcher or shotgun, however since support is the one giving ammo now it balances out for the most part. Back to the spawn beacon grenade, how about you can only use it after the first one expires. So I'd there is one present on the map, you must wait until it goes away before you can throw another? I fear the spawn thing may be abused, but in 2142 squad leaders did have something very similar.

Omitting flash bangs all together, does anyone have suggestions in regards to tactical grenades other than just smoke. Looking back on it, smoke seems to be the best option in my opinion, since it's harmless and simply adds a passive advantage to the player in that they can cross areas under a degree of cover. Perhaps make it so the smoke doesn't dissipate as fast, and takes a little bit of time to build up like in real life?

StormEye

StormEye

BF2 had flashbangs and 2142 had EMP grenades (which disrupted your HUD).

It actually worked out nicely, since assaults had to choose between smoke grenade or flashbang (well, its more like you choose a gun that comes with smoke or flash, GL was a default).

In 2142, the spawn beacon COULD be useful, if it is used properly (aka, don't spawn you idiots when you just died!), but in many cases idiots would ruin the plan entirely by making the enemy team be able to spawn camp the beacon by one idiot wanting his petty revenge on the enemy player by trying to spawn as soon as possible and revealing the beacon location.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

At least in BC smoke isn't absolutely worthless like in 2142. I still like the idea that it takes a little time for the smoke to build up just like they do in real life.

Way I see it this is how it would work out

Assault: 1 tactical grenade, 2 frag grenades
Support: 2 Tactical grenade, 1 frag grenade

all other classes would get one of each. To throw said grenade, it would replace the current knife button, and the need to switch to your knife would return (I miss the old knife duels from the old BF games)

StormEye

StormEye

The real knife duels happened back in the Counter-Strike days where knife was not always OHK.

LoL

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

true, but I do remember that the rubber knife thing existed long before BC. I remember I would try to knife a guy in BF2 and sometimes all you would see is dust, the guy would then turn around and blow you away. But god those were good times. I truly miss my L85A2 as a medic, I hope that since the new faction is NATO that they'll bring back that particular rifle, as well as the G36c or just a standard G36 would be great.

StormEye

StormEye

Dive knifing was AWESOME in BF2. Even with the shot delay they added, knife still worked as soon as you went to prone position.

So you can rush the person, and dive down and slash his ankle for a quick kill. LoL

Just bring back G36E and let people know that AN-94 and current M16 is nothing to cry about.

LoL

Guest


Guest

I would be all for flash/stuns! Been wanting them since day 1. But they need to be limited, 1 per life with no refill and it wouldnt be un balanced at all.

StormEye

StormEye

Or make them resupply REALLY slow, like twice as long as the grenade launcher (which would be total of 20 seconds or so of standing next to the box).

Even with instantaneous resupply (well the class was separated though) of BF2, flash was never a problem. It just added another aspect which people could use.

Ante

Ante

How about tear gas? Blurs vision and slows movement, but it's still possible to defend yourself.

StormEye

StormEye

They had tear gas on BF2:SF (an expansion to BF2).

Forgot what it exactly did in terms of effects, but they did have them in the past.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

Storm that's what I said lol. Tactical grenades would resupply like stupid slow so they couldn't be spammed. If not that, perhaps make it so you can carry more smoke nades than flash. the max amount of flash grenades you can ever carry is 2. I'd say that seems fair. They are also nearly useless outside perhaps? I'd say it should be far more potent indoors, thus limiting its utility.

MEGA MILK

MEGA MILK

ante87 wrote:How about tear gas? Blurs vision and slows movement, but it's still possible to defend yourself.

Rainbow had these, but they were usually banned because a lot of them would cause major lagging all around. I'd like to see them.

I'd also like to see equipment jammer of some sort. Something that disrupts the map, motion mines, AT mines, spotting, etc. Might be neat.

Khfan60

Khfan60

Smoke Grenades: Sure
Flashbangs: No, no NO. Developers really need to stop putting those in games, they really fucking hurt my eyes.

Zillah

Zillah

Anything that can be spammed for easy kills should be kept out of the game.

Think, tear-gas and stun grenades would not make the game any better.

Ante

Ante

Hotdamnitssam wrote:Anything that can be spammed for easy kills should be kept out of the game.

Think, tear-gas and stun grenades would not make the game any better.


Goodbye rocket launchers and LMGs.

Guest


Guest

Yes you can spam LMGs for easy kills when they take more hits to kill than an assault rifle.

If anything the Assault class is there for easy kills, going by the rubric of 'who consistently maintains an advantage in anti-infantry'.

luckily this is a BF games so vehicles out of fucking nowhere.

Duck

Duck

Flashbangs would be fine as long as they were slow resupply and didn't really do anything unless it was inside a close quarters building. The game is supposed to be about superior tactics trumping being able to twiddle your thumbs more accurately than the other guy so I don't see any problem with it making things too unfair.

Ante

Ante

Yes you can, because assault rifle = 30 rounds and LMG = 100-200 rounds. I feeling like I'm slamming the "I WIN" button when I use the Type 88 and that's arguably one of the worst LMGs in the game.

AUG - 22hrs - 1360 kills
T88 - 13hrs - 1003 kills


It's much, much easier to kill with an LMG in my experience.

Guest


Guest

And the AUG is the worst assault rifle. Its not your fault you maintained a terrible KPM using it (or if you were in a vehicle for that).

The only annoying thing about Medics is the fucking zombie-train standing on med kit surviving the holocaust bullshit, which would be true even if he only had a pistol. In regular modes all the LMGs are pretty much terrible now anyway, in Vietnam outside of the AK47 the Medic is a better anti-Infantry class which is derp.

Well with the XM22 he's better since the M60 and RPK suck.

TheGM

TheGM

I dunno. LMG take on about 25 rounds fired for a Kill. I get people within 8 rounds out of a AR(except the F2000, the HFR makes me waste rounds)

But guns in different hands get different results. Hence why The SCAR-L doesn't suck....You suck with the SCAR being the end of that result.

Cookie Monster

Cookie Monster

C4 is mah Stun Grenade. Either it stuns you dead or leaves you deaf and injured for me to come and clear the room. Shock and awe.

Duck

Duck

The M60 and RPK actually need a buff or the XM22 a nerf.

Medics need a cool down for reviving definitely, and god dammit there needs to not be an invincibility period for reviving. If someone gets revived, then I'm going to fill them up with lead, and be out of ammo because they are invincible, and then I die. Rather people should not get invincibility in any way shape or form, but the medic should get
-60 points if someone they revive dies in the next 5 seconds.

And LMGs should have way more inaccuracy for shooting on the run, like the game claims they do.

StormEye

StormEye

SCAR is actually a pretty good gun, just not the best at long range due to weird recoil. Its second best at close range, but UMP just trumps it in every way except the 5 less ammo count.

Guest


Guest

When people ride the UMP's dick they should keep in mind that its irons are absolutely fucking horrifying to use. I hated that gun both times I platted it (reg and SA).

And the Medic's M60 in Vietnam should do 25 damage in range and 20.2 out while the RPK should be 20-16.7. Its so fucking sad that the AK47 fires 200 RPM faster has much cleaner irons/easier to handle recoil and deals the same damage. what.

The RPK is just the PKM from regular mode without a boost because they didn't want to infringe on M60 territory I guess.

TheGM

TheGM

StormEye wrote:SCAR is actually a pretty good gun, just not the best at long range due to weird recoil. Its second best at close range, but UMP just trumps it in every way except the 5 less ammo count.

In my experience with both guns(It is A-LOTS) I prefer the SCAR of the UMP. sure the UMP might shoot slighty faster but 5 less rounds is a no-no. and the UMP irons are poo in with compared to the SCAR's.

Goofy recoil in the SCAR? Hmmm what? I got my most kills with that gun and it is fine. They only way recoil would effect long range shots if you held the trigger down. And you shoulder never do that with any gun at distance. 3-5 round bursts are the way you should be firing that thing.

StormEye

StormEye

They actually have same RoF.

The grouping of UMP is better than SCAR due to less rocoil.

If you single shot them, then they are on par, but if you shoot them in a burst UMP has much better grouping than SCAR at range.

At close range SCAR can be very beneficial due to recoil that will bring center-mass shot into headshot.

TheGM

TheGM

It does NOT kick that much.......Then again why em I listeing to somebody who doesn't even play this game?

As a Platinum collector I have allot of time alot of guns. People here oversell the recoil on these guns like they are firing a friggin elephant gun.

StormEye

StormEye

You don't have to listen to me, just voicing my opinion from what I remember when I played the game. Not like I am saying my opinion = way people think.

If you have a problem with me not being able to play and voicing my opinion spoken from my past experience, which by looking at the stats that have not changed since I stopped playing, thats fine. That is your stance on me. I cannot change that.

Artimise Flare

Artimise Flare

Stats aside, I feel that the effectiveness of a weapon is highly dependent upon the wielder. I for one constantly go positive with the AUG and F2000, they are just guns that I am more comfortable with, all the while I struggle to get kills with say the M16 or AN-94 which are superior in every way if you are going by stats.

Assault class is what it's supposed to be, an anti infantry class, HOWEVER, giving them infinite ammo is a bit much. LMG's do need more inaccuracy while on the move, and they should not get health packs.

This is why I am glad the "support" class seems to be returning in BF3, hopefully they will be the ones to get ammo boxes again, and medics won't be as godly, and assaults will not feel as super powered in some cases.

What makes an assault player seem stupid powerful imo, is due to the fact that the game flow focuses more on combat and rushing into locations rather than tactical game play. Regenerating health changes the playing field, and personally I don't mind it, but I don't think it should regenerate you to full.

Maximum I say your health should only regenerate 25% max, and as you take damage the appropriate amount will come back, and that regeneration happens at half the rate a med pack would heal you.

TheGM

TheGM

lol

got ya!

*snickers like Snidely whiplash*

Zillah

Zillah

Marxist Dictator wrote:When people ride the UMP's dick they should keep in mind that its irons are absolutely fucking horrifying to use. I hated that gun both times I platted it (reg and SA).

And the Medic's M60 in Vietnam should do 25 damage in range and 20.2 out while the RPK should be 20-16.7. Its so fucking sad that the AK47 fires 200 RPM faster has much cleaner irons/easier to handle recoil and deals the same damage. what.

The RPK is just the PKM from regular mode without a boost because they didn't want to infringe on M60 territory I guess.

Oh god the Ump's irons are like looking through a pinhole. I feel bad using an RDS on engineer because i'd rather have more rockets. but im just trying to finish of the UMP platinum. (300 or 400 kills left)

Scar has the most amazing irons ever, so clear. pretty awesome gun too even if it only does like 600 rpm.

Ante

Ante

I'm with StormEye on this one, I prefer the UMP over the SCAR just because the SCAR behaves so strangely for me. I do agree the SCAR has better irons, but at the same time, I have no problem lining up long range shots with the UMP. That and the UMP is a sexy beast while the SCAR is butt-ass-ugly.

Zillah

Zillah

ante87 wrote:I'm with StormEye on this one, I prefer the UMP over the SCAR just because the SCAR behaves so strangely for me. I do agree the SCAR has better irons, but at the same time, I have no problem lining up long range shots with the UMP. That and the UMP is a sexy beast while the SCAR is butt-ass-ugly.

What! The Scar looks awesome! And if you put a 4x on the Ump its not bad.

1fnbighen

1fnbighen

i vote scar, larger mags and the ability to put on ex ammo beacuse the irons are so good. in turn it allows you do to what an engie is supposed to do without much help of your team

MEGA MILK

MEGA MILK

That and the UMP is a sexy beast while the SCAR is butt-ass-ugly.

Smoke hand grenades and flash bangs, yes or no? 1293136926302

Cookie Monster

Cookie Monster

ante87 wrote:That and the UMP is a sexy beast while the SCAR is butt-ass-ugly.

Smoke hand grenades and flash bangs, yes or no? 150

Valukar



scar is sooooooo much better than ump, for real

i don't get why people make such a big deal out of the health system. if there's one thing they don't change in battlefield 3 i hope it's the health. it takes roughly 40 seconds to recover all of your health without a medkit, 10 seconds with one, and even less with heal plus. if you didn't recover all of your health over time, you're automatically disadvantaged in every single gunfight you have for the rest of your life. sure you could have a medic heal you, but would you put your life in the hands of one of the random medics in bad company 2? i don't think so. for the sake of game flow, i'd rather be able to lay low for a while and get my health back the normal way. a health bar would be nice though, since it's kind of dumb that you have to ask someone else how much health you have.

http://www.gamerhold.com/forum

Zillah

Zillah

Mr. A. Knife wrote:scar is sooooooo much better than ump, for real

i don't get why people make such a big deal out of the health system. if there's one thing they don't change in battlefield 3 i hope it's the health. it takes roughly 40 seconds to recover all of your health without a medkit, 10 seconds with one, and even less with heal plus. if you didn't recover all of your health over time, you're automatically disadvantaged in every single gunfight you have for the rest of your life. sure you could have a medic heal you, but would you put your life in the hands of one of the random medics in bad company 2? i don't think so. for the sake of game flow, i'd rather be able to lay low for a while and get my health back the normal way. a health bar would be nice though, since it's kind of dumb that you have to ask someone else how much health you have.

Yeah i just wish there was a way to make medics a bit more useful. as it is, theres barely any point in calling for a medic, even if youre in a squad with him and call him.
By the time he'd get there youre almost back at full health.

Duck

Duck

Who should get the ammo packs?

I got down that

assault should get assault rifles
medics should get submachine guns
engineers should get shotguns
support should get lmgs

Maybe medics should get ammo, health, and revive to compensate for having only an smg. I'd also like to see the assault class be able to sacrifice the 40mm for extra grenades or something. I just like the look of assault rifles without the launcher better.

Zillah

Zillah

Ducksaws wrote:Who should get the ammo packs?

I got down that

assault should get assault rifles
medics should get submachine guns
engineers should get shotguns
support should get lmgs

Maybe medics should get ammo, health, and revive to compensate for having only an smg. I'd also like to see the assault class be able to sacrifice the 40mm for extra grenades or something. I just like the look of assault rifles without the launcher better.

What would the operational difference between assault and support be?

Cookie Monster

Cookie Monster

Ducksaws wrote:Who should get the ammo packs?

I got down that

assault should get assault rifles
medics should get submachine guns
engineers should get shotguns
support should get lmgs

Maybe medics should get ammo, health, and revive to compensate for having only an smg. I'd also like to see the assault class be able to sacrifice the 40mm for extra grenades or something. I just like the look of assault rifles without the launcher better.

Or the option for a foregrip instead of a launcher?

Cookie Monster

Cookie Monster

Hotdamnitssam wrote:
Ducksaws wrote:Who should get the ammo packs?

I got down that

assault should get assault rifles
medics should get submachine guns
engineers should get shotguns
support should get lmgs

Maybe medics should get ammo, health, and revive to compensate for having only an smg. I'd also like to see the assault class be able to sacrifice the 40mm for extra grenades or something. I just like the look of assault rifles without the launcher better.

What would the operational difference between assault and support be?

Covering fire, resupplies (ammo pack, not unlimited though), airstrikes/mortars.

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