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PC build help

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1PC build help Empty PC build help 2012-08-26, 21:03

Pariah

Pariah

A friend of mine is trying to build a PC, he's mostly going to be using it for audio mixing, some casual gaming (not too good of a system is necessary) and just homework.

He's looking to get as good a processor as can be managed, and a good sound card, as well as >4 gbs of RAM. I figured I'd ask you guys, since the tech guys on SeC are the best I know. His budget is about 500$, could you guys suggest anything?

2PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-26, 21:07

Guest


Guest

Hes looking at a 500 budget for everything?

Does he have OS, monitor and input devices?

3PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-26, 21:29

Pariah

Pariah

Monitor he has, input devices are negligible, as for OS, I personally recommended he just get a free copy online, but nothing more complicated than Windows 7 Home Premium would be necessary.


Right now, we're browsing PC Parts Builder, just adding what looks to be best for the money (some of the stuff I know, but the problem I'm running into mentally is whether the parts will be compatible)


4PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-26, 22:28

Guest


Guest

Go to EcollegePC.com

They have a really nice PC builder

5PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-26, 23:03

StormEye

StormEye

How important is the sound card for this guy?

Good sound card for professional use can be quite considerable.

6PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-26, 23:19

Guest


Guest

Yea its going to be hard to build a PC W/ a sound card for 500.

7PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 00:04

Pariah

Pariah

Well, he wants a sound card he can use for sound mixing, which I think is gonna be rather pricey.

Sym, I've been using PCPartsBuilder, but my main problem is I'm not sure if everything would go together. Like, I don't know if a specific case would hold the components I need, or what kind of power supply I need.

8PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 01:59

StormEye

StormEye

If he is tight on budget, most mobos have decent on-board sound, but it might not be of professional grade that your friend is looking for.

Professional cards cost around minimum of $200, if you are looking at a minimum standard.

$300 probably is not going to be enough for multifunctional PC.

$500 budget for budget PC does not include sound card for the most part, and you might as well go with no sound card if you are going to buy cheap sound card.

9PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 02:04

Pariah

Pariah

Thats what i was thinking Storm. Most likely, I'm just going to set up a good gaming PC for him, with a mid-line graphics card (he plays stuff like Fallout 3, not sure what he really needs) and a decent processor. The only real requirements he needs are like 256gig HDD, at least 4 g ram, I'm thinking maybe like 2 4 gig cards? Maybe a 6 instead with more slots for later upgrade?

Frankly, I'm just not sure if the components would be compatible (or how to check it even)

10PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 02:36

StormEye

StormEye

FO3 and FONV (along with all related games that use same/similar engine) are HORRIBLY optimized, and it will stutter like crazy & FPS dropping everywhere even on over spec'd PC, especially with lots of mods. (though it could just be the fact that the game CANNOT handle dual GPU cards)

i7 2600k 4.5ghz OC'd
GTX 590 (crappy brand, but its 590 darn it!)
Corsair Vengence 16gb RAM
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion
OCZ Vertex 3 240gb

and it still runs like crap...

Vanilla game is fine, but who the hell would play vanilla FO series on PC...

The components these days don't need lots of thinking. Most are compatible with each other, and only thing you need to watch out for are CPU socket on mobo and your desired CPU. Beside that, its pretty much all go.

Mobo that has GPU slot and pretty much ANY extra PCI-e would be enough for your friend, hence even a micro ATX mobo with small form factor case is advisable.

If you are unsure about RAM, just buy anything that is 1600 speed. Its that simple. LoL

Any HDD would be fine as well, as long as you buy them from regular PC stores, not located in Somalia or something.

If you go with small form factor, as mentioned above, you don't need extra power supply, as it will most likely be provided by the case you buy (it essentially runs like laptop power). If going for regular case, just buy minimum requirement for CPU and GPU (meet the one listed higher).

11PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 02:51

Pariah

Pariah

This is what I've got so far, would any part of it be too much/little? I want to get him a decent graphics card, hoping the geForce 4800 is good, though I don't really know much about it.

PC build help WbRpm

12PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 02:58

StormEye

StormEye

Remove heat sink. Just use stock cooler and save some $.

8400 GS is not going to be enough for anything modern. My last card was 7800GT, and 8400GS does worse in performance than 7800GT. 7800GT was crap at running CoD4, barely 40~60 fps with graphics turned down.

No real problems on CPU and mobo, along with other peripherals.

13PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 03:14

Pariah

Pariah

ok, so since this'll free up a bit of $, what would actually be good for a graphics card? keep in mind, this really doesn't need to be something that can max out BF3 or anything crazy. It can be something that can just run things decently.

14PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 03:23

StormEye

StormEye

Add the saved price onto the current 8400GS price, and its about $64.

That still is not enough for anything minimum standard of these days, and I'm not talking about on the paper minimum, but realistic minimum.

What games exactly is he looking for, and what kind of graphical experience is he expecting with that particular game? Monitor resolution?

At least I can safely say that anything in that $64 range will not run FO FPS series well enough. Unless he is going to play FO classics.

It is almost necessary to give at least $100 room for card for any decent experience.

15PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 03:33

Pariah

Pariah

Frankly, he's not a huge gamer. Fallout 3, New Vegas, Minecraft, probably TF2, maybe Killing Floor. As to graphic resolution, nothing spectacular. he's primarily an xbox gamer, so I doubt he'd really care about fantastic graphics.

16PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 04:11

StormEye

StormEye

He should expect to play FO3/NV without any visual enhancement mods, or any mods that adds extra artifacts, and follow strict visual tweak guidelines to properly optimize for himself.

He could go GT 630 or something (around $65), but it pains me to advise such low card...

CPU can be downgraded a bit, as I don't think its a major factor in the work he is doing (if he is REALLY serious about this work, then I assume he would have more budget than that).

He might as well give up PC gaming and go completely work-only (since he does no visual related work) PC, and stick with consoles, save those money and buy a sound card.

17PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 04:40

Pariah

Pariah

Well, he kinda does want to play on PC too, so i'm thinking just something like that. though he's likely not going to be modding a ton. But I'll tell him about the GT 630, if that works then perfect.

18PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 04:49

MEGA MILK

MEGA MILK

I would tell him to stop being poor.

19PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 09:10

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

MEGA MILK wrote:I would tell him to stop being poor.

Warning: wall-o-text ahead probably only pariah will want to read all this.

haha as mean as it is Milk is pretty right.

for 500$ he's going to be pretty disappointed if he's looking to do some serious audio work.

firstly if he's looking to do some actual recording he's gonna need a decent ASIO capable sound card so that he can record without latency. As an example the card I have was somewhere between 400$-500$ (can't remember exactly now). It's a little higher level card since it has 8 ins and 8 outs with 4 built in pre-amps but for a lower level one that's still decent you're looking at around the 150-200$ range. When looking for a card (internal or USB/Firewire external) he should be looking at bit depth, sample rate and ASIO latency <10 ms (as low as he can go ideally).

And to push the latency down that low you'll need a fairly decent processor. I have an i3 330m (pretty crap I know) and I have trouble getting my latency bellow 8ms. If I go lower the audio starts to stutter. A four core CPU would probably be ideal.

if he's just going to stick to mixing and not do any actual recording then the latency doesn't matter...you can mix with a whole second of latency.

For ram I would say 4gigs as an absolute bare minimum but 8 would be ALOT better. I have 4gigs on my craptop and I can freeze/crash my system pretty easily when I'm doing audio editing.

Then there's the whole speaker issue. His mixes will suffer if he only uses PC speakers for mixing since they hype certain frequencies. His mix might sound good on his speakers but if he plays the song on different ones his mix could sound terrible since these other speakers will probably be hyping different frequencies than his which will throw his EQ job all out of whack.

He'll need to invest in either near field studio monitors which would be minimum 300-400$ or a pair of studio monitor headphones which would be 100-150$ for some decent ones. But even with headphones his mixes might suffer due to something called Fletcher-Munsen effects.

Basically the louder and/or closer to your ear something is the better it's gonna sound to you. Headphones amplify this effect and could make his mixes sound artificially more badass then they are in actuality due to the proximity of the headphone speakers to his ears.

Then there's his DAW (digital audio workstation). He could pirate them but if he's looking to pay they are not cheap programs. If he isn't going to be making any money off his mixes he can get Reaper for 60$. That's probably the best "cheap" DAW I can recommend. It's actually my favorite DAW regardless of price. It has an awesome feature set and it's open source so it updates very frequently and there's alot of add-ons available.

What kind of audio work exactly is he looking to do Pariah? And if he's pretty serious about the audio thing it's gonna need to be an either/or type of build.

If he's serious about doing the audio thing then forget the graphics card and put extra money into tailoring the rig for audio. if gaming's more important then lose the audio card and dump money into the GPU. I don't think he's going to be able to have his cake and eat it too...especially not for 500$. If he can somehow up his budget to 750$ or 1000$ then I think he'd be alot happier with the result.

20PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 11:20

Pariah

Pariah

About the tiny budget, that's what I told him to. I know that for the price he has, he won't get a good sound card, that's pretty evident. Frankly, I think I'd build it as a gaming station, and then later when he has another 400-500 dollars get a good sound card.

21PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 11:48

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

Pariah wrote:About the tiny budget, that's what I told him to. I know that for the price he has, he won't get a good sound card, that's pretty evident. Frankly, I think I'd build it as a gaming station, and then later when he has another 400-500 dollars get a good sound card.

yup that's probably his best bet.

22PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 13:32

Chewy

Chewy

Pariah wrote:About the tiny budget, that's what I told him to. I know that for the price he has, he won't get a good sound card, that's pretty evident. Frankly, I think I'd build it as a gaming station, and then later when he has another 400-500 dollars get a good sound card.

Well I don't think he has to spend that much, high end sound cards are like $200.

23PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 14:21

Pariah

Pariah

Chewy wrote:

Well I don't think he has to spend that much, high end sound cards are like $200.

Ok, 200$. Keep in mind, I don't really know anytihng about sound cards, I just kinda wanted to help him.

24PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 16:58

Guest


Guest

Hyrda nailed it

As did Storm

25PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 18:31

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

Chewy wrote:
Pariah wrote:About the tiny budget, that's what I told him to. I know that for the price he has, he won't get a good sound card, that's pretty evident. Frankly, I think I'd build it as a gaming station, and then later when he has another 400-500 dollars get a good sound card.

Well I don't think he has to spend that much, high end sound cards are like $200.

Sound cards for recording are different. It all depends on how many 1/4" inputs and outputs you need/what type they are/how many preamps you get/the quality of the preamps/how many simultaneous channels you can record and some other features as well.

an internal PCI-e card will probably be cheaper but not as feature laden as an external card due to size limitations.

This is my external USB recording card. It's got alot of bells and whistles but it has all the features I need. It was right around 400$ which is mid-level in the world of pro audio.

PC build help Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzYTBWkc1f3Ij5gxBWbULGMHdb8SibRrm7rxpAmI8yK7X7XItC

26PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 18:57

Chewy

Chewy

Ah I see, I guess all I've been looking at is PCI cards with not a whole lot of inputs and outputs.

I've been thinking of getting a top notch one myself along with a new pair of cans.

27PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 19:00

MEGA MILK

MEGA MILK

Chewy wrote:Ah I see, I guess all I've been looking at is PCI cards with not a whole lot of inputs and outputs.

I've been thinking of getting a top notch one myself along with a new pair of cans.

I think you look perfect the way you are now.

28PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 19:02

Chewy

Chewy

But they could always be bigger...

29PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 20:28

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

Chewy wrote:Ah I see, I guess all I've been looking at is PCI cards with not a whole lot of inputs and outputs.

I've been thinking of getting a top notch one myself along with a new pair of cans.

Yeah well PCI-e cards are just fine if all you want to do is listen to audio and have a line in for a mic for gaming. A good PCI-e card is more than enough for that kind of application.

If you're looking to record/produce your own high quality music/a band then an external or a hybrid PCI-e/external dock type card would probably be ideal.

30PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 21:01

Pariah

Pariah

Hydra, since he actually understands the audio-prospeak, I'm just gonna reroute him to this thread, cuz I'm getting lost.

31PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 21:29

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

Pariah wrote:Hydra, since he actually understands the audio-prospeak, I'm just gonna reroute him to this thread, cuz I'm getting lost.

haha yeah alot of this stuff probably sounds like Chinese to the uninitiated. If he has any questions me or Greg could probably help him out. Greg knows more about this stuff than me since he's actually studying to be an audio engineer.

32PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 22:23

StormEye

StormEye

There are cards that are PCI as base, but provide extra input/expansion via outlets or internal cabling. Seen a LOT~~~~~ of sound cards during my recent shopping spree, and had to resist myself from shelling out additional $ for no apparent reason, as my sound cards are only used for playback only.

33PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 23:06

HydrasBreath ♜

HydrasBreath ♜

StormEye wrote:There are cards that are PCI as base, but provide extra input/expansion via outlets or internal cabling. Seen a LOT~~~~~ of sound cards during my recent shopping spree, and had to resist myself from shelling out additional $ for no apparent reason, as my sound cards are only used for playback only.

oh yeah for sure there are 1/4" in/out with preamps PCI cards too but usually you can't select preamp on/off and you probably wouldn't get phantom power for a condenser mic on a PCI card unless it had an external dock and you probably wouldn't get many simultaneous input channels. Unless you spend a ridiculous amount of money that is.

34PC build help Empty Re: PC build help 2012-08-27, 23:06

StormEye

StormEye

$ solves most things.

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