Helicopter Pilots out there, I got questions for you!

Ok, I know some of you are chopper whor- er experts, and I was wondering if you could answer a few questions of mine.

First off, as a pilot whom is in between the novice and average phase of learning, I find that avoiding AA guns and combating air targets to be a major pain.

What do you do to counter AA guns, other than snipe them with rockets or relying on your gunner.

Secondly, I notice that air combat against another helicopter seems to depend heavily on your gunner. Providing a level platform for your gunner is obviously key, but avoiding enemy rockets and fire makes that difficult. How do you cope with the combat situation?

I can hit anything on the ground, but as far as air combat goes, I'm toast no matter what I do. I've tried mixing up my altitude to avoid being hit, I've also tried diving underneath and avoiding the rockets of the enemy chopper so I can come around and hopefully get the lead on him along with my gunner. Rockets don't seem to do much except keep the enemy helicopter pilot busy, and moving. the only thing I can imagine trying to do is funneling them and forcing them into a direction I desire. if they are going left, I fire left in hopes of forcing them to stop and go right etc. etc.

Any tips for a fledgling pilot who is trying to earn his wings?

Honestly, in air to air battles it really does depend on your gunner. If you don't have one, switch back and forth between pilot and gunner. I've taken out choppers like that. As for AA guns, I usually go low, and come up over them and just try and get em in one round of rockets, or two if necessary. Often times I lose, so usually I just stay out of their view.

Don't be predicable, have a good gunner. That's all it really takes to win AA battles with other choppers.

In attack helicopters the gunner can't aim upward so you have to tilt the chopper backward to change elevation and still give him a good shot.

In a battle with another helicopter switch to third-person (rockets deal the same amount of damage to other helos as the 30mm, except it spreads, the projectiles travel slower and it's impossible to aim while in third person) and alternate elevation and strafe left-and-right as much as possible while moving backward. Switch up the directions every few seconds to keep from flying too predictably.

Generally the other pilot moves in closer out of frustration if you're dodging well and it makes it much easier for your gunner to lead. Obviously don't bother taking the chopper without a gunner.

The only times I even open fire on other helicopters while I'm flying is if I can nail them before they take off or if they're incredibly close and they don't-have a gunner. Even then, the gunner seat almost always gets the kill.

As for dodging AA guns, fly as low as possible, break the line of site and re-enter it when you have a good shot (it's a memory thing). The gunner is actually the most effective seat against stat weapons since he has a much higher chance of killing the operator outright with splash damage.

The AA gun in RU deployment is annoying since it has a massive line of sight - fly as low to the water as possible, repair if necessary near the cliff-like area leading to the beach and finish it off.

The AA gun on B is tricky, usually I repair behind the ship if possible and take it out from full health.

The only map that I hate flying on is Port Valdez Conquest, because of the freaking VADs, god if the americans capture B, forget it, good luck getting into and staying in the sky.

If your team has the AA gun, it's an automatic win most of the time.

Artimise Flare wrote:The only map that I hate flying on is Port Valdez Conquest, because of the freaking VADs, god if the americans capture B, forget it, good luck getting into and staying in the sky.

Port Valdez CQ fucking blows, stick to Atacama.

Hopefully Heavy Metal won't feature the VADS...>_>

JDM_Jev wrote:

Artimise Flare wrote:The only map that I hate flying on is Port Valdez Conquest, because of the freaking VADs, god if the americans capture B, forget it, good luck getting into and staying in the sky.

Port Valdez CQ fucking blows, stick to Atacama.

Hopefully Heavy Metal won't feature the VADS...>_>

I would say, "Or attack helicopters", but something tells me that with the amount of tanks that will be present on that map, they will be almost necessary.

The map is going to have two attack helicopters and two transport copters.

I don't see why they don't just remove the god damn VADS or make it a ZU23 reskin. There's no way to balance the gatling-style AA in respect to the ZU23 - even if they VADS dealt 9 damage a hit it would still kill over a second faster than the ZU (.4 faster if you count the rev-up).

The game just needs AA tanks (the BMD-3 AA) for both sides. They're the only AA platforms that can withstand more than one burst of rockets, and you can move them around.

simple

Heavy metal will have the VADs tank.

Agreed, seriously, the VADS is the WORST AA addition to the game as far as balance. It's so freaking easy to kill with the damn thing. I agree that more mobile AA needs to be put into the game, or at the very least, as you said, make an AA gun extremely similar to the ZU23.

By the way, is it even worth it to use flares anymore? I hear that 90% of the time unless you practically stop in place, they fail to remove the tracers.

I can picture Heavy Metal being a complete mess, with the amount of firepower that's going to be on the battlefield, lol. It's going to more than vehicle oriented, it's just going to be the map constantly exploding, lol. That's going to be completely ridiculous.

Flares will work as soon as we get the R9 title update - you have to be flying 3DPS or slower for them to actually remove the tracer currently because of some programming fail (for reference the attack helicopters can fly as fast as 15 DPS).

The VADS is too broken at everything. Heavy Metal is going to be ridiculously one-sided, just like PV CQ - because there will be no point to flying as the Russians so you'll be getting pounded on by the Apache all game while tanks roll you over.

And of course the VADS tank would absolutely mince infantry. It takes .12 of a second for the VADS to kill a full-health soldier in Core.

IMO, the flares only seem balanced on Attack Choppers glitched, after the patch, they will be unstoppable, even when piloted by the biggest of dim wits. The only thing able to stop them will be AA guns, and with a good team, there will no way you will be able to keep yours. What they need is a rocket launcher that only holds 1-2 rockets, and is meant strictly for Attack Choppers. They shouldn't need a tracer to lock on, but take time to lock on, and if you deploy flares just as the missile is about to hit you, it'll stop it. And as you said JEV, the team with the VADS is going to completely annihilate the enemy team. This worries me, considering I was thinking about playing again, but if this map will be in circulation, I'll probably be quitting a lot more matches because I won't want to play the map, which is annoying, to say the least.

I don't see how dice can possibly think such a monstrosity is balancing. I'd like to see a return of the old single Cannon AA tanks like in BF2. I remember the Americans getting one that only had a single cannon (granted they had to worry about jets back in the day) and it worked admirably as long as you knew how to lead.

EDIT: I hear you Drbob. Remember in 2142 where you could unlock an AA rocket launcher that would fire in sets of two's? It would take all four to kill a chopper, not to mention the lock on time necessary. I think this would be a great addition to the engineer class. Of course the rockets can be dodged, and the fact you have to choose that instead of say an AT rocket would work out fine IMO. Perhaps give it a slow reload time?

I think that VADS should only point at a sharp angle upwards, so it couldn't be used against people on the ground or any vehicle other than choppers, because right now, it's the only thing that stands a chance against Attack Choppers. I think that the Russian AA gun has it about right though, even though it needs just a hair more power.

It really depends on the deployment VADS line of sight vs. how many potential AA guns they are on the map.

In Port Valdez CQ it's at least possible to avoid it while you're in the Russkie chopper, if they do an open-style valley like I believe they're going to then the VADS will fucking rape everything.

And of course there's the AA tank VADS, which is what I'm going to be using the entire time because I really want Dice to realize how retarded it's inclusion is.

The whole issue of air-balancing in this game is a tough one as unlike tanks the AA guns are meant to be dealt with solely by player skill and luck.

Educated-guess rockets or educated-guess tracers, and the AA gun that isn't the VADS is too inconsistent because of the bloom. If they just removed that it'd be a lot better since you could actually drop a helicopter in two/three bursts with appropriate lead at any range really.

Or make it like actual flak and up the god damn damage since it honestly doesn't do enough.

As for the VADS, maybe 9 damage would work if it had absolutely no impact impulse whatsoever.

MEGA MILK wrote:Hopefully, the VADS won't be such a cunt after the patch.

It's going to be.

The damage is getting toned down to 20, so it still kills Infantry in 5 hits. Instead of 23 hits to kill helicopters it will take 25 (lol).

33 rounds per second = still an instant-kill. The only thing getting noticeably lowered is the ImpactImpulse (push value), but it's not-getting toned down enough to make a difference.

Maybe they need to replace more of the AA-guns with AA tanks, and just get rid of VADS from the game? What they should do is give VADS a little more spread, and get rid of the ridiculous pushing effect it has, but give more push to the other AA gun (just a little bit more than what it currently has), and make it more accurate?

Educated-guess tracers and rockets don't do shit, because a good pilot will lazily move out of the way, and smoke gets rid of tracers, so even if you hit them, they'll just pop flares and get rid of it. Flares shouldn't even be allowed on Attack Choppers IMO, or it should be available a limited number of times, because it makes it invincible to everything except for a AA guns, unless it's the occasional lucky tank/rocket shot.

Educated guess-Gustavs are how I see 70% of helicopters go down on that map unless they got shot down by another helicopter. Occasionally the AA gun but only bad pilots get shot down by that thing alone, even if every shot hits it takes 3.6 seconds to kill.

During that time it's more than possible to dive and repair if necessary. Again, unless there's a bunch of shit pilots polluting that map, or if someone charges the AA gun on B at the start of the game to give his team the edge in the initial dogfight.

Play more Atacama Desert CQ. Tracers are entirely dependent on the chopper's positioning - usually you can fire a rocket off and it will be impossible for the pilot to dodge, but if he can get to the cranes behind American deployment or near any of the flags if you're spawn-trapped then he'll always survive.

And I said we need more AA tanks since that would be the perfect fix. Unfortunately we'd still need spawn-AA guns since having your AA tank stolen would become just as much a problem as losing your chopper (see Port Valdez Rush on the third phase if you have dumbass teammates using the BMD-3AA to move up in the map and then promptly abandoning it).

If a pilot gets hit by a CG free-hand rocket, they should seriously set down the controller, and find a new hobby. Every time I've been shot down from an Attack Chopper, only the AA tank took me down once on Valdez rush, and the other couple times were from the VADS. Why would a pilot be stupid enough to fly close to the ground enough to be hit by a Gustav? If you stay far away, and let your gunner do the work, and just circle strafe from as far away as you can, it's nigh impossible to be taken down by a tracer dart/CG.

It's actually not that hard to free-hand rockets, it's a lot easier than it is to trace imo.

Then again I'm quite well-versed in the art of Gustaving lol.

Also, attack helicopters have to fly close otherwise the pilot won't hit shit because of the rockets spreading. So it makes sense.

Unlike the Blackhawk/Hind where you can fly really far away and still have the gunners rape if they can lead well.

If the pilot sees the rocket, or the warning sound beeps, then all they have to do is ascend/descend in altitude and/or rapidly change directions. Even the CG is too slow for how manuevable the Attack Chopper is. What they really need, is some type of flak gun, that has shells that explode in the air at a certain range, or on impact. Impact should kill the chopper in one-two shots, the flak should cause significant turbulance, but little push, and the flak should damage the chopper severely/destroy it after 4-10 shots (depending on how close the flak explodes and how fast it fires, to balance)

free handing helis might be easy for you Kitsune .
I struggle with it a little, I hit blackhawks all the time, and get hit myself, with freehand rockets, but attack choppers are hard to hit with a tracer, let alone a rocket. Provided the pilot is any good. Of course I'm and "average" pilot at best, meaning I can drop people off where they need to be, and keep from crashing into a cliff, but no promises after that

It's easy to hit a blackhawk, but Attack Choppers are impossible, unless the pilot is a dumbass.

You're forgetting that 95% of decent pilots fly in that predictable circle-strafe.


Basically if you get under them while they're circling overhead it's unavoidable. You're really giving the Gustav too little credit, the lead even in a base-rape scenario is maybe one and a half times the size of the chopper.

It's unavoidable since the rocket travels so fast. Just because you can't aim where a moving target currently is and hit it without accounting for lead doesn't mean it's impossible.

Blackhawks are easy since they face wide-side out and every pilot does that orbit crap. Hinds are different since it's really easy to fly imo - you face everything head-on, you have the narrow end of the helicopter facing out and you don't have to be close or anything since the pilot seat is unarmed.

I really think you actually need to play the map again before making judgement calls on things you hate because the Gustav is fucking great at it.

You think I can't aim well? Is that what you're saying? Apprently I can, because I can shotgun the pilot out of the damn chopper better than I can hit with a CG. If the pilot sees the CG, he will just change direction. You also forget about the missile warning system, that beeps loudly when a missle is coming, telling even the biggest of dumbasses that they are going to die if they don't change direction. All it takes is a quick mash on the LT, or just turn suddenly, the missile will miss. Only the AT-4 in skilled hands can take down a good chopper team. Not to mention the fact that if the pilot has Smoke, and the Gunner has Armour, you are fucked, completely, and utterly.

I think I have a bit more experience with attack helicopters than you, that's all I'm saying.

The Gustav really is the best avaliable counter apart from the 30mm chain of another attack helicopter since they fly so close.

There's literally no time to dodge unless you're shooting at them across the map like a dumbass.

They don't have to be across the map, if the chopper knows what they are doing, flies as high as the map will let them go, and are staying far away from infantry, Heavy MGs, tanks, AA guns, and everything else, they become nearly invincible. If they have armour, even if you hit them with that lucky CG, they aren't going down, and if the pilot has smoke, tracers will be ineffective. Any good chopper team is invincible; even a good Blackhawk team is a force to be reckoned with, though nothing like the Attack Chopper. Like the one game where Dark had to constantly dodge the enemy AT-4s, Shaymo had Armour, and I was gunning with Warheads. We were nearly unstoppable for the entire round of Valparasio, even though 8 people with very good aim were trying to shoot us down; each miss was mere inches, and only missed because Dark is an excellent pilot and dodged at the last second, not to mention the occasional rocket was stopped by Shaymo's armour. Considering the fact that Attack Choppers don't need Warheads, Smoke and Armour mean that they are now even worse to fight than the Blackhawk, because they are much, much faster and manueverable; only a bad pilot will ever be shot down in an Attack Helicopter, unless it's from the VADS or another chopper. I don't care if Super Raptor Jesus has the CG, that thing shouldn't come down.

you two are always at each other. take it easy on one another please. there is no reason to get upset.

If your REALLY good then yes, choppers are easy to shoot down. if your average then no, they are not that easy to kill.

example, I joined a game with anticrombie one day and he was playing with his friend who just got the game so he was level 3 and we joined his game, hopped in the blackhawk on isla, and proceded to go 52-0. they must have shot 50 rpgs at us but couldn't get a hit to save thier lives.

TerryMay wrote:you two are always at each other. take it easy on one another please. there is no reason to get upset.

If your REALLY good then yes, choppers are easy to shoot down. if your average then no, they are not that easy to kill.

example, I joined a game with anticrombie one day and he was playing with his friend who just got the game so he was level 3 and we joined his game, hopped in the blackhawk on isla, and proceded to go 52-0. they must have shot 50 rpgs at us but couldn't get a hit to save thier lives.

You must've never seen a good pilot then. A good pilot will simply dodge the RPGs and Gustavs. There's a loud buzzer that sounds whenever you're fired at; I have no problem dodging rockets whenever I fly them, even against people with a good aim.

The very first time I played Port Valdez Conquest, which was my 2nd time ever flying an attack chopper, I shot down 5 enemy helicopters by myself, dodged the VADS, let my teammates kill it, and never was shot down once. I rarely get shot down when I fly, unless the chopper was stolen, and already severely damaged, and I'm taken down by some bullshit like the Heavy MG because my armour was at 20% or less.

I'm pretty sure that in your 3 hours of chopper using you learned much more of an understanding of them then I did. They're far from unbeatable.

And I'd love to see this absolutely godly pilot whose capable of predicting rockets perfectly and never-gets shot down. Oh wait there isn't one, I have around 5 people added who have 6 times the amount of chopper kills/play time then I do and I still see them get dropped from time to time.

If choppers took two consecutive hits to go down they'd be impossible to drop, but they don't so a lucky rocket is always a kick in the dick for even the most experienced pilot. Don't knock it until you actually have some experience with it.

I know you hate Battlefield games and everyone who uses helicopters but honestly this is just getting stupid.

steal your friend's BO so we have something to play while we wait on map pack 7


then we can drive around in the VADS tank together <3

Any announcement on when MP7 is coming out anyway?

They should turn the attack helicopter gunner seat into a stationary aa weapon

but you could always just sit in the chopper gunner seat and destroy the other one

The Russian AA gun is useless on Atacama desert.

It's only useful for annoying a pilot engaged with another helo/whose in the process of destroying all your team's tanks.


1v1 you'll lose every time

I agree with Ing, a 30mm chain being an AA gun would be an awesome fix come to think of it.

And AA tanks obviously.

I want to be a pilot so bad but I'm scared to death to fly one, crash it, then piss everyone off. I guess I better get that screw everyone attitude and just try it.

you could try it in onslaught first

Yeah, I need to buy Onslaught but I'm saving points for Nam and map pack.
Thanks for reminding me.
Do the points and kills in Onslaught go to your regular score?

No points in onslaught do not go to your regular score.

Onslaught allows you to get 8 new achievments, compete for the best time in completing maps against the rest of the world. (At one time during the first month I was number 1 on Nelson Bay woot), and it also allows you to practice the vehicals in a closed room. I played the hell outta it on release but I don;t touch it anymore.