Dont Ask Dont Tell REPEALED

Senate passed it, and we all know Obama wont veto it.

Basically beforehand you could be gay and be in the military, but you couldn't make it know in any way. Can't write a letter home to a gay partner at home, can't talk about being gay, etc etc.

Basically now you can still join and won't be kicked out just because you were born liking the same sex.

Now you can join the military!

Seriously though, Im glad this happened.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not.

Won't the gays get extra flak now where they could have avoided it before? I suppose they could still just not say if they don't want to.

Always seem to know though. My dad had a gay in his unit, the guy used to sit up in the big cut out window in the shower haha. He ended up awoling I guess. My dad can't remember for sure, be he thinks he also got the pillowcase treatment.

It's a question of freedom. Sure you might not want people to know you're gay because you could be afraid of being judged, we're not going to make laws prohibting people to think badly of you because youre gay, but being kicked out because you are openly gay is just ridiculous. Back then black guys weren't really allowed to join the military, we can look back at that now and say "wow that was stupid".

Ducksaws wrote:It's a question of freedom. Sure you might not want people to know you're gay because you could be afraid of being judged, we're not going to make laws prohibting people to think badly of you because youre gay, but being kicked out because you are openly gay is just ridiculous. Back then black guys weren't really allowed to join the military, we can look back at that now and say "wow that was stupid".

I don't think those 2 examples are really comparable but whatever. I personally just don't think the military is the place to be fighting for gay rights right now. Why not start with gay marriage? It's not like gays couldn't join the military, they just had to be silent about it. What's so bad about that? It's not forcing them to change or punishing them for being gay, it's just because, like Sheep said, they're going to get flak for it. It's not productive in the military to have soldiers hating other soldiers for something stupid like their sexual orientation, so it was there to avoid that.

Wacco wrote:

Ducksaws wrote:It's a question of freedom. Sure you might not want people to know you're gay because you could be afraid of being judged, we're not going to make laws prohibting people to think badly of you because youre gay, but being kicked out because you are openly gay is just ridiculous. Back then black guys weren't really allowed to join the military, we can look back at that now and say "wow that was stupid".

I don't think those 2 examples are really comparable but whatever. I personally just don't think the military is the place to be fighting for gay rights right now. Why not start with gay marriage? It's not like gays couldn't join the military, they just had to be silent about it. What's so bad about that? It's not forcing them to change or punishing them for being gay, it's just because, like Sheep said, they're going to get flak for it. It's not productive in the military to have soldiers hating other soldiers for something stupid like their sexual orientation, so it was there to avoid that.

Yeah, but the fact that you had to be discharged if they find out about you is the scandalous part. Unfair treatment based on sexual orientation shouldnt be tolerated anywhere, even in a place as serious as the military.

Yes it is comparable. Back then black people could get flak for being black, other people hating them in the military over it. There's a lot less of that now, but it's change that had to happen.

There's also what comes from being forced to completely repress your sexual orientation. You couldn't even write home to a gay partner because it would mean being open about homosexuality. Having to completely suppress that is just ridiculous and shouldn't be enforced by the government.

Honestly I'll be glad if it causes problems with the war. The worse the public image gets for the war the quicker America will swallow its pride and admit it can't attempt to end a thousand year old Muslim conflict and then hand off the peacekeeping from the best military in the world to a third world country group of militia.

But they're so pure!

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Ducksaws wrote:Yes it is comparable. Back then black people could get flak for being black, other people hating them in the military over it. There's a lot less of that now, but it's change that had to happen.

There's also what comes from being forced to completely repress your sexual orientation. You couldn't even write home to a gay partner because it would mean being open about homosexuality. Having to completely suppress that is just ridiculous and shouldn't be enforced by the government.

Honestly I'll be glad if it causes problems with the war. The worse the public image gets for the war the quicker America will swallow its pride and admit it can't attempt to end a thousand year old Muslim conflict and then hand off the peacekeeping from the best military in the world to a third world country group of militia.

Yes, because gays were enslaved for a few hundred years right? Obviously the same thing. Thanks for opening my eyes Frost.

Also, swallowing our pride won't help anything honestly. The Iraq War is similar to Vietnam honestly. We've gotten into it, we can't just walk out. Leaving without at least making sure the country's security force is somewhat competent would just be a disaster. It's not an issue of pride anymore. We either stay in Iraq and Afghanistan long enough to fix the mess, or leave the countries in ruins, and hating us even more than they already do.

BTW, just a curious question Duck, what do you think about WikiLeaks?

Frostbyrn wrote:No but they were/are Treated as Human Garbage because of something that cant control

And the only reason for that is because Religion said they were Against God for some reason

Oh...I thought your first post was sarcastic I personally don't think the two are very similar. I'm not saying gays shouldn't be given rights, and I'm not homophobic in any way, but I just don't think repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell is anything like the Civil Rights Movement. Sure, it's a step towards equality for gays, but why start off in the military? That doesn't seem productive to me. Why not go for marriage first in all states, then military? Soldiers have said the the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell will damage squad morale, and that's not something you want to mess with in the middle of a war.

I'm glad this passed.

Sexual orientation has no effect on how you defend your country in combat! when trained properly a gay man/woman can fire a rifle just as well as a straight man/woman. Take orders the same way and give orders the same way!

Your defending your country from oppression. who you are personally should have no consequence on how you serve in the military.

Well said Derp.

I served with many gay people. Everyone knew who was gay, it was pretty obvious. But no one gave a shit. No one could talk about it.
I guess in a way, DADT saved them from some harassment.
However, now that gays have equal rights in the military, they'll be able to report said harassment through the proper channels just like anyone else receiving mistreatment.
It's a good thing.

It was a pretty stupid law and I'm glad it was repealed.

Wacco they can work on gay marriage at the same time, they don't have to do it one tiny step at a time. This was a very homophobic rule and those who think it will damage morale are probably few and they have some issues of their own that they have to deal with.

I guess the morale point was kind of dumb, I've never been in the military so I wouldn't know. I just heard a statistic on the news that 52% of Marines think that the repeal would be damaging to squad morale.

Wacco wrote:I guess the morale point was kind of dumb, I've never been in the military so I wouldn't know. I just heard a statistic on the news that 52% of Marines think that the repeal would be damaging to squad morale.

Statistics aren't based off of EVERYONE. that's the problem. They don't ask every single troop/soldier what they think. They ask maybe a hundred and then post their findings.

It's all bogus statistics unless you manage to ask every enlisted man or woman!

I have very strong feelings about this, but dont think I should voice them.

Wacco wrote:I guess the morale point was kind of dumb, I've never been in the military so I wouldn't know. I just heard a statistic on the news that 52% of Marines think that the repeal would be damaging to squad morale.

If they had phrased the question "Are you homophobic?" I bet 52% percent of people would have said yes.

What are gay people?

Seriously though it seems to me to be a matter of equality and now gays have the same freedom within the military. Seems fair to me.

Just remember....the Spartans were gay and look how many fights they won.

TheGM wrote:Just remember....the Spartans were gay and look how many fights they won.

Haha! A little different though. More cultural than genetic.

They werent really gay per se....more very very bi lol

I'm going to be brave and say, I really don't care for the gay lifestyle. I would be lying if I said otherwise. that being said, I don't hate others for it, it's their choice in life. I agree with wacco that there are a lot more important things to be working on in the US right now. Not just on the civil rights front, but in many other areas. So I don't know if this was the right time to have this fight, but since it's been voted on it might as well have been repealed. It was a very silly law that was counterproductive. "you can be gay, just don't be gay in any way that we can see" pshhh what a joke

Symbolic47 wrote:They werent really gay per se....more very very bi lol

one word.

Catamite.

That is all.

Yes, because gays were enslaved for a few hundred years right? Obviously the same thing. Thanks for opening my eyes Frost.

Not due to slavery... it's the basic fact that with both groups it became social norm to think less of them. Slavery created racism, not the other way around. Over time, people just saw it as ok to thing less of black people because most of them in the US were slaves. In the same way being gay has been construed as a negative thing (thanks to religion) for so long that it's become the social norm to think they're not as good as straight people in some way. We're overcoming years of religious based social discrimination here, with black rights we were overcoming economic based social discrimination.

Not exactly the same, but it's still working towards ending discrimination in the government so it will eventually work its way into society.

Also, swallowing our pride won't help anything honestly. The Iraq War is similar to Vietnam honestly. We've gotten into it, we can't just walk out. Leaving without at least making sure the country's security force is somewhat competent would just be a disaster. It's not an issue of pride anymore. We either stay in Iraq and Afghanistan long enough to fix the mess, or leave the countries in ruins, and hating us even more than they already do.

No, it's completely a matter of swallowing our pride. We have this notion that we can accomplish this with enough time, but all we're doing is digging ourselves in a bigger hole. Do you honestly expect us to end a 1000 year old feud between Shi'ites and Sunni, completely destroy Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and then pass the torch that the American military has been struggling to carry for 10 years off to some ragtag bunch of 3rd world militia with Ak-47s? No, of course you don't

So meanwhile we're spending billions that could be going to our own citizens (about half our budget goes to this war every year, and we're 14 trillion in debt) on getting soldiers killed in for the sake of delaying the inevitable to make ourselves look better.

BTW, just a curious question Duck, what do you think about WikiLeaks?

Depends... some of it is good. Some is bad. Obviously there were some secrets that were secrets for our own safety. Some stuff like China secretly admitting they think North Korea is a whiny bitch getting released, I like that because it makes North korea a little closer to realizing no one in on their side and they're just crazy.