I am against stem cell research

Because people live too damn long as it is. Earth can barely support the population we have now and social security is on the verge of collapse because our baby boomers are living twice as long as the senior citizens the program was founded for.

Unless stem cell research finds a way to make it so medical care is dirt cheap or that our senior citizens won't be feeling the effects of age until they get to year 80 or something, in the grand scheme of things trying to reach towards immortality without decreasing our reproduction rate is not such a hot idea imo.

No religious comments allowed.

Really?

It's not necessarily stem cell research as I'm not sure exactly what you can do with that, I just know it's a big medical breakthrough that will surely advance the life of people a great deal. We barely have enough room on earth as it is, can you imagine what would happen if our life spans just doubled? Where are we going to put these people? How are we going to feed them? How much coal are we going to need to burn to keep their houses lit? How much gasoline are they going to use? How much taxpayers money is going to go in to keeping them alive if they're on social security for twice as long?

Dont worry sauce.
with fast as light travel, we can get to galies in 12 years.

How about this: lets just kill everyone once they turn 19 and we can all live like we're in a children of the corn scenario!

The earth produces plenty of food for everyone, this is a baby boomer era that's aging so it won't be forever, nations are taking a look at population control, and we are actually finding alternative sources of energy.

Stem cell research allows you to grow cells that basically haven't decided what kind of cells they want to become yet. You can harvest an adult's pre-skin cells and use them to make nerve tissue for them if they had some sort of neural disorder for example from their own cells. It isn't necessarily going to make us live for 150 years.

I think we really need to limit how many kids people can have. Like you said we are overpopulated and really don't have the room for more growth at the moment. Also i honestly believe that some people don't want to live that long in their old age because they start to lose the ability to do a lot of things.



I have seen a lot of people in this city with a ton of kids but not the income to support them so they have to beg the government for money. Simple solution really...

We really needed worldwide population control put into effect decades ago.
Along with having to buy a license and taking mandatory tests/classes to see if you'll make a good parent. The license should cost x% of your yearly income so that it doesn't favor the rich to much.

What we really need is a war that kills about 1 billion people.

Epyk wrote:Dont worry sauce.
with fast as light travel, we can get to galies in 12 years.

Also, once you hit a certain age (80? 90? 100?) you become the property of the state and a crash-test-astronaught to be used for intergalactic testing. You will also be partnered with a monkey.

Metalzoic wrote:We really needed worldwide population control put into effect decades ago.
Along with having to buy a license and taking mandatory tests/classes to see if you'll make a good parent. The license should cost x% of your yearly income so that it doesn't favor the rich to much.

What we really need is a war that kills about 1 billion people.

Only problem is, what are you going to do with people who just get pregnant by accident? Take away their babies?

Bear Grylls Bear wrote:

Metalzoic wrote:We really needed worldwide population control put into effect decades ago.
Along with having to buy a license and taking mandatory tests/classes to see if you'll make a good parent. The license should cost x% of your yearly income so that it doesn't favor the rich to much.

What we really need is a war that kills about 1 billion people.

Only problem is, what are you going to do with people who just get pregnant by accident? Take away their babies?

I was thinking more along the lines of forced sterilization early on. Vasectomies for males would be the easiest answer and it's reversible.

For accidental babies: You can keep it if you pass the requirements and pay up. If it's not an accident but fraud you'll be criminally charged. In those cases it goes up for adoption for people that can't have one of their own.

If no one wants that baby then by a certain agae it becomes a crash-test-astronaught baby/child and will be launched into space with his monkey buddy.

what we need is pro abortionism.

abortions all around! if you didnt have an abortion than you just arent cool. by law people are allowed to throw mushy things at you

i mean there is pro life and pro choice. choice is the neutral party. pro abortion is the other side of pro life.

basically saying, if are pro choice, you should be pro abortion. becuase in a debate the compromise is always pro choice!

abortions! for everyone!

ThePeavstenator wrote:How about this: lets just kill everyone once they turn 19 and we can all live like we're in a children of the corn scenario!

The earth produces plenty of food for everyone, this is a baby boomer era that's aging so it won't be forever, nations are taking a look at population control, and we are actually finding alternative sources of energy.

Stem cell research allows you to grow cells that basically haven't decided what kind of cells they want to become yet. You can harvest an adult's pre-skin cells and use them to make nerve tissue for them if they had some sort of neural disorder for example from their own cells. It isn't necessarily going to make us live for 150 years.

There are actually sci-fi movies where they kill people once they reach a certain age, for good reason; they can't support infinite amounts of people.

Baby boomer era or not, there are more people living in the world now than there were 100 years ago, there were more 100 years ago than there were 200 years ago and so on. The baby boomers are a little dip in the curve, but the overall trend is the population is going up.

While the Earth may have the potential to produce enough food for everyone and green energy may be able to support us all, we are no where near that vision. World hunger has been going on since the dawn of man kind. The only way that food would actually be distributed in a way that everyone gets fed would be some kind of world communist system which will never happen. Most green energy techniques that have the potential to completely replace fossil fuels for cars, heating, and electricity are at prototype phases or on the drawing board at best.

My point is, while we could possibly support much more people, we can't right now. If medical science gets way too far ahead of the science that allows us to support people, it will not be good. It's like if a family decided to have 5 more kids and justified it through the boss hinting at a salary raise and the bigger house next door being for sale.

Bear Grylls Bear wrote:

ThePeavstenator wrote:How about this: lets just kill everyone once they turn 19 and we can all live like we're in a children of the corn scenario!

The earth produces plenty of food for everyone, this is a baby boomer era that's aging so it won't be forever, nations are taking a look at population control, and we are actually finding alternative sources of energy.

Stem cell research allows you to grow cells that basically haven't decided what kind of cells they want to become yet. You can harvest an adult's pre-skin cells and use them to make nerve tissue for them if they had some sort of neural disorder for example from their own cells. It isn't necessarily going to make us live for 150 years.

There are actually sci-fi movies where they kill people once they reach a certain age, for good reason; they can't support infinite amounts of people.

Baby boomer era or not, there are more people living in the world now than there were 100 years ago, there were more 100 years ago than there were 200 years ago and so on. The baby boomers are a little dip in the curve, but the overall trend is the population is going up.

While the Earth may have the potential to produce enough food for everyone and green energy may be able to support us all, we are no where near that vision. World hunger has been going on since the dawn of man kind. The only way that food would actually be distributed in a way that everyone gets fed would be some kind of world communist system which will never happen. Most green energy techniques that have the potential to completely replace fossil fuels for cars, heating, and electricity are at prototype phases or on the drawing board at best.

My point is, while we could possibly support much more people, we can't right now. If medical science gets way too far ahead of the science that allows us to support people, it will not be good. It's like if a family decided to have 5 more kids and justified it through the boss hinting at a salary raise and the bigger house next door being for sale.

There's plenty of food for everyone on earth. It's not that it isn't evenly distributed (smaller part of the problem), it's that it's lost to spoilage, theft, or warfare.

Hm, if anything. Stem Cell research won't make you life over 100 but mainly help you if you have a problem. Hell they managed to make tissue for a heart and such by using the structure of a pig heart, but there are big limitations anyway on stem cells unless we go to using embryonic stem cells which is a use for accidental pregnancies but there are all sorts of problems to deal with.

Plus having a limit on children will just be like the One Child Policy in China which thankfully stopped, the children there had no brothers or sister and when the family are together they all different generations so few people have the same interests and then there is going to favouring of those with money..

I think you are worrying a bit much about the stem cell research duck because it really isn't good enough yet and to even make an organ with them takes a few months so it's hardly sustainable but repairing eye vision and other parts is a great thing for people nowadays it doesn't prolong their life to live longer than average but it could potentially help them live up to the average if the procedure is beneficial, so it won't really affect our population so much.

But I may be wrong, I am only throwing ideas out thar and I understand what you're saying but I am not sure if my paragraphs make much sense. I need to brush up more on science D:

That and when people come up with ingenious ideas as to help the world hunger issue, it gets shot down by idiots who think that genetically altered food is going to mutate us and give us all cancerAIDS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug


This man essentially fixed world hunger and we said "lol no thanks."

I don't know about food, but we've already entered into a worldwide water shortage that is even more dangerous. Climbing population just accelerates it.

If it comes to it we can eat each other, but we can't drink each other.

Metalzoic wrote:I don't know about food, but we've already entered into a worldwide water shortage that is even more dangerous. Climbing population just accelerates it.

If it comes to it we can eat each other, but we can't drink each other.

The human body is 70% water.

We'll have to invent a specialized wringer to get to it then.

Metalzoic wrote:We'll have to invent a specialized wringer to get to it then.

Well it's a good thing that we won't ever run out of water. The biggest thing water does for us is filter out waste and toxins. Then it goes into our sewer systems, then bodies of water until we filter it again for drinking.

eh.....due to how shitty the economy is even if this stuff does take off it will take years.....who knows maybe a big solar flare will do us all in before lol

ThePeavstenator wrote:

Metalzoic wrote:We'll have to invent a specialized wringer to get to it then.

Well it's a good thing that we won't ever run out of water. The biggest thing water does for us is filter out waste and toxins. Then it goes into our sewer systems, then bodies of water until we filter it again for drinking.

It's not quite that simple.

It was supposed to be a joke Metal.

We just need to redirect our multitrillion dollar Particle Cannon towards cities that we decide to destroy- *cough* Detroit *cough* -and continue on from there. We could then claim is was an accidental firing.

Metalzoic wrote:We'll have to invent a specialized wringer to get to it then.

Like that thing in tank girl that she stabbed Malcolm McDowel with, and it sucked all the water out of him and purified it, and left him a dry husk?

That thing was cool.

YES someone saw the true genius pf pro abortion

HAL 9000 wrote:

Metalzoic wrote:We'll have to invent a specialized wringer to get to it then.

Like that thing in tank girl that she stabbed Malcolm McDowel with, and it sucked all the water out of him and purified it, and left him a dry husk?

That thing was cool.

I haven't seen it but that sounds awesome!

We need to start developing Mass Cores...

Anyway, guys. Stem cell research is good. We should research and develop as many technologies as possible before the shit hits the fan... because it will. It definitely will.

Food prices are already at an all-time high, the economy is shit (hur dur, we thought we could achieve the infinite growth paradigm), and the world is going to hit peak oil in the near future. Goodbye combustion engines. Seriously, we're going to have all of this leftover technology, with nothing to run it. Tons of useless airplanes, automobiles, trains, blah blah blah blah blah.
We may have been able to slow down our oil usage if capitalism wasn't the king of the fucking world. The biggest businesses stay in business. NO MATTER WHAT. It has taken way too long to get electric cars and other alternative energies on the market because of big oil lobbyists. They don't want anyone hurting their profits. Also, it doesn't help that everyone in the U.S. needs to drive everywhere. Look at Europe. They love their trains and bicycles. I would love it if I never had to drive, and could just take a train, hop off, and ride my bike to where I needed to be.
Anyway, I'm going off topic.

Yes, the earth's population is too large. We're going to see famine and disease wipe out large sections of the population. It would be appropriate if the baby boomers got hit by it before they died. After all, they were the generation that has made this country the way it currently is.

Fuckin' A. There's so much shit going down that they don't want you to know about, and we're all fucked. We're not going to know we're totally fucked until we are, though, because the people in control want to continue living their lavish lifestyles. They don't want reform in favor of the environment, or funding for science and technology. They want what little money is left to go into their buddy's businesses. The rich stay rich, and the middle class gets poor. It's a class war going down behind the scenes, now. That's what all the attacks on the unions and public workers is about. Now they're attacking small businesses (the microbreweries in WI are getting hit hard).

IDK. We are fucked. No one can save us but ourselves, and we're too distracted by the television, which isn't giving us the real news because they're fighting for ratings. How many people watched the whole Casey Anthony case? NOT NEWS. Not at all. That affects no one. But some people could care less about politics and current events. I don't blame them--it's a lot to try to comprehend, and you have to try to sift through all of the news and figure out which statements are lies, and which are facts, and when you really see the truth of it all, it is quite the mental burden.
So we choose to enjoy what little time we have left with this current standard of living (as it's dropping like the space shuttle's last reentry), and ride the apocalypse.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xp_Letzd-Qc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's going to be a fun ride. Say goodbye to the children and the elderly.

1fnbighen wrote:YES someone saw the true genius pf pro abortion

It was MEEEEE

Also, Metal, don't bother. That movie sucks. Stupid kangaroo people and shit, and an annoying main actress. I just remembered that one scene was pretty cool.

Also, sorry for killing the thread with my giant wall of gloomy thoughts.

You should be against all medical advances then

Once we start colonizing other planets and moons, we can all be in peace! Though I have no idea how many hundreds of years that would take. You know, the whole atmosphere, gravity and soil thing makes it kinda hard.



Also, I blame idiots. They reproduce at an alarming rate, going against the very laws of nature (strong and smart live, weak and dumb die). I say that we should make teenagers with kids AND their kids work until they die of starvation. Two birds with one stone! And for some reason I think I'm the only one that will laugh at this last paragraph.

We're not actually running out of oil. Oil companies jack up the prices of the oil because they feel they can get away with it during disasters, even if the disasters have no real effect on their production costs. Like the Japan tsunami. It knocks a bunch of japanese cars off the road, demand for oil goes down, you would think that the price would go down as well. Nope.

The middle east actually might be running out, but there is more oil in shale layers under downtown pennsylvania than in all of saudia arabia. We just can't get to it because our technology can't yet suck out the oil without fucking the water supply there.

Trust as soon as the oil we can get to runs out, capitalism will provide and technology to get more however possible will take off like a rocket.

But you realize there is a finite supply, right? We will run out eventually. There is no telling when, but we will. We use it more rapidly than it is created.

When peak oil hits (i.e. half of the world's oil is used up) we will see prices skyrocket. Only the richest of the rich will be able to afford cars, plane trips, etc... A good portion of it will be reserved by the government, most likely, for the military and public transportation. Personal transportation will just sit where it lies, rusting and rotting away.

Yes and when we hit that magic number, everyone's going to drop what they're doing and panic until we all die. Scientists won't find other ways to fuel cars, ever. Not to mention the fact that we'll all be long dead by the time this happens.

This is a really touchy subject. On one hand I am all for the advancement of mankind. That would includes medical breakthroughs such as stem cell research.



That being said, I do agree with Ducksaws to an extent. We already have a food shortage across the globe and the fact of the matter is that having to support people who can no longer support themselves is crippling world economy. Look at italy, they have a very low retirement age so people start collecting "free money" while not contributing to the country. Stem cell research and the number of years it would add to peoples lives would only make the problem worse.



200 years ago we never imagined that people would regularly live to see 80 years old. Its not something we are prepared to handle if there is another spike in life expectancy. can you imagine having it be totally normal to live to 100? think about it, that is potentially 30 years of retirement and social security. unsustainable.

Terrinator wrote:This is a really touchy subject. On one hand I am all for the advancement of mankind. That would includes medical breakthroughs such as stem cell research.



That being said, I do agree with Ducksaws to an extent. We already have a food shortage across the globe and the fact of the matter is that having to support people who can no longer support themselves is crippling world economy. Look at italy, they have a very low retirement age so people start collecting "free money" while not contributing to the country. Stem cell research and the number of years it would add to peoples lives would only make the problem worse.



200 years ago we never imagined that people would regularly live to see 80 years old. Its not something we are prepared to handle if there is another spike in life expectancy. can you imagine having it be totally normal to live to 100? think about it, that is potentially 30 years of retirement and social security. unsustainable.

Not if our bodies age slower and we're able to work later into our lifespans.

that is true but doesn't seem to be the way that medical science is going. Its more of a hold off the clock kind of game as it stands now.

Terrinator wrote:that is true but doesn't seem to be the way that medical science is going. Its more of a hold off the clock kind of game as it stands now.

And that's exactly why we need this. First we learn how to extend human lives with better medical technology, then we learn to slow the aging process. Science is full of hurdles. You can't skip hurdles.

With the exponential evolution of technology, it is predicted that nearly anything will be possible. This is predicted to occur in 2030. Sounds ridiculous maybe, but Ray Kurzweil gives a damn strong argument for it in The Singularity is Near.

Anyway, by that time, it's expected we'll have nanotechnology available to us. It is quite possible that near-immortality could be achieved, among many other things.

Be skeptical if you like, but don't dismiss it entirely without researching it a bit.
Some call it the atheists' rapture, seeing as it seems so ridiculous, but I think it's true for the most part, as there is a lot of supporting evidence.

our idea of what is scientifically possible changes dramatically every 50 years or so. so yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised...... I guess I would be as surprised as one should be by eternal life....?

There is actually research being done into immortality. I forget what it's called, but basically these little parts of your dna break down every time your cells divide and just get worse and worse at remembering how to work. But this one guy has started to find something that will keep your cells from "forgetting" how to create themsevles.

Research into this is something I support because it won't just make you live longer, it will make you active and a useful member of society longer. Not just taking up space and money until you die.

Meh, I don't like the idea of immortality. Duck, your logic isn't making any sense here. You don't like stem cell research because it will lead to overpopulation...but you like the idea of that population never dying out but reproducing and having their children live on and on? It can't work.

nano tech would hugely effect us medically.

if they were small enough and self sufficient enough.. destroy free radicals in our blood stream and boost our immune systems...we'd pretty much live forever

I actually like this reason to be against stem cell research, and I would accept it as a very valid counter-argument. By allowing human beings to live too long, they'll overpopulate the world even worse, even faster.

Perhaps we should sterilize "x"% of all human beings at birth, to ensure that the population goes down/stabilizes better? In addition to that, put a restriction on the number of children fertile parents are allowed to have, such as 1 or 2?

Kitsune wrote:
Perhaps we should sterilize "x"% of all human beings at birth, to ensure that the population goes down/stabilizes better?

Personally, I am against this. You can't just sterilize humans at birth, that's not right.

sterilization at birth? i don't really like the idea, but there isn't very many "nice" ways to go about population control are there?

I've read quite a bit of debate about forced sterilization in the news, recently...

IDK. Conflict:
What's best for everyone is best of all.
vs.
No one should interfere with another person's free will.

I'm a free will guy. Anything that limits people's free will doesn't fly with me. How would you like it if the one thing you wanted in your life was to have kids, but you were sterilized as a child without any say in the matter?

I respect your opinion, but I think that free-will is overrated, personally. Free will is good when you are alone, and you are just trying to survive, but society would be much easier/efficient if people would simply submit to their superiors and follow their orders. It's much like a machine; if certain parts are moving at their own tempo, the machine doesn't work as efficiently, and may even break. By making everything move together, it will begin to work at maximum efficiency and people will actually probably be happier in general. With a lower population, there would be less crowding, less crime, etc. However, eliminating free-will requires a good, caring leader, which is very difficult to come by.

That would suck.

But why would I want to have kids in a world in which my children will have to live with all the things my generation and the dozen before it that fucked up everything? That's a question I often ask myself.
Welcome to the world, son. Here's your dust mask, sunglasses, and white poncho. Take them off and risk dying.

An exaggeration, but you know what I mean. Will life even be worth living when everything goes to hell?