Court

You know the oath that you have to say

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

Why does it have the word god in it? There's supposed to be a separation of church and state so how do they get away with that?

It's just because of what it used to be like; I always laughed at it, because if somebody is Aethiest, it doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't really mean anything to an atheist (atleast not me) but it's almost like if you had to say god doesn't exist, I'm sure some christians wouldn't want to have to say that. Atleast not the ones I know.

Yeah, I don't really think they should have to say it, personally. I agree completely.

If whoever made the the oath or whatever was standing in front of me right now I would smash their skull with a pick axe, same with the people who are saying no to gay marriage I wish I could fucking bash their skulls in with a fucking hammer. I can't believe how fucked up our government is to let this shit happen.

your not required to say the oath because it is a religious ritual and the government cant force you to do so. It is mostly there out of tradition like most of the other stuff in our country. But it also has to do with accepting the majority population. So for most of the US it does apply.


Edit: Also its not so much the government allowing it to happen as it is just a simple saying to initiate your "truth telling time" lol.

Bla I promise you when I go to court I will make a big deal about it.

Bla125 wrote:If whoever made the the oath or whatever was standing in front of me right now I would smash their skull with a pick axe, same with the people who are saying no to gay marriage I wish I could fucking bash their skulls in with a fucking hammer. I can't believe how fucked up our government is to let this shit happen.

You must remember that our country was founded by Christians; if you read the constitution, and our money, there is a lot of the word, "God" and such. It's not that they're trying to belittle others, it's just the way it's been. As I've said before about other matters, this is basically no issue at all, compared to those facing other countries. If you don't like it, I'm pretty sure that there is something else that you can swear upon if you are in court; they will not force you to take an oath to God against your religion (that I know of), it's just tradition. Lying in the name of God to a Christian is probably one of the worst things you can do, but I don't know what you would really swear on for an Aethiest.

I tend to concentrate on matters that are a little more important, like all the idiots and treehuggers that make it so I can't go hunting/fishing. If they ever scare my game intentionally, or block my shot, it'll be very tempting to shoot them, but I will not. Some things you just have to deal with, unfortunately. :/

When I go to court and if someone asks me that I'm going to stomp on their kneecap. And I thought it had to be said or else whatever you say can't be recorded as real evidence or whatever you want to call it, atleast that's what my teacher told me.

And you don't necessarily HAVE to deal with it.

Bla125 wrote:When I go to court and if someone asks me that I'm going to stomp on their kneecap. And I thought it had to be said or else whatever you say can't be recorded as real evidence or whatever you want to call it, atleast that's what my teacher told me.

And you don't necessarily HAVE to deal with it.

I don't know if that's 100% true, due to the First Amendment.

There is an act that says the "oath" is required to be said in court, however the "so help me god" part of it is omitted and the "oath" becomes an "affirmation" basically...

And even in other oaths like the oath of office and oath of citizenship, the "so help me god" part isnt required at all...its just very common.

How come when they tell you the oath the include the so help me god part? Do they just assume that everyones christian? Thats like if I see one white person shoot a person and I automatically spray every white person I see with pepper spray because I assume that they will kill me.

Why exactly is this a big deal to you?

No, Im pretty sure they talk to you before hand. Ask what your beliefs are and how you would want your oath stated.

Also thats nothing like your analogy...

That gets to my other point, aren't they technically not allowed to ask you your religion because it's supposed to not matter? If someones religion isn't supposed to matter then why not have the same oath for everyone?

And why is it a big deal to me? Religion pisses me off, no offense to anyone but it just makes me... Mad...

There are many things science hasn't proven right either; as I've said before, I believe what makes the most sense out of both, but that's besides the point. The thing is, they don't assume everybody is Christian, it's just courthouse tradition to ask for you to swear on the Bible; I'm sure if you're of another faith, they will find your book, and if you are Atheist, then nothing.

When I went to court the judge said "I hope god is on your side..." meaning he just assumed that I believed in god, I was seriously about to stab him.

No, it means he believes in God, and it means he wishes you the best of luck, because he doesn't want you to be prosecuted harshly.

He was the one who got to decide what happened to me though, it's like if I was a satanist and said "I hope satan is on your side." I really doubt he would like that.

People are going to assume something that has the best chance of being right. More than likely, someone your talking to will be christian. Its just the way it is.


And unless you tell them your not christian, how would they know? Maybe they wont ask you what specific religion you are...IDK ive never been in that situation before..but unless you tell them you dont want to say that part then how will they know?

Bla125 wrote:He was the one who got to decide what happened to me though, it's like if I was a satanist and said "I hope satan is on your side." I really doubt he would like that.

It is different than that Bla; the way God is viewed, and Satan is viewed, are completely different, even by Satanists. God is percieved as to show mercy, guidance, and care, while Satan is more about driving people to lust, greed, etc. They are far different comparisons. I assure you, that he did not want to offend you when he said that, I really mean it.

from the way i see it im pretty sure the other guy says so help you god right? if the other guy is representing the court binding you in oath then he hopes his god will hold him back as he punishes you for lying in a courtroom.

DrBob276 wrote:

Bla125 wrote:He was the one who got to decide what happened to me though, it's like if I was a satanist and said "I hope satan is on your side." I really doubt he would like that.

It is different than that Bla; the way God is viewed, and Satan is viewed, are completely different, even by Satanists. God is percieved as to show mercy, guidance, and care, while Satan is more about driving people to lust, greed, etc. They are far different comparisons. I assure you, that he did not want to offend you when he said that, I really mean it.

If you are a true satanist you aren't going to believe in god, I have read a LOT into satanism. What you said right there is the christian view of god not satanist.

Thats not what that phrase means.


The phrase can be interpreted in different way but that doesnt make sense.

They wont really know whether or not your lying so how would they punish you for it?

The point of the oath is that YOU are holding something valuable to YOURSELF at stake. By lying, you loose that stake. For christians lying infront of god like that is horrible. so in saying that oath your saying you wont lie because if you do...you loose the stake which is breaking your promise with god.

Edit: And the court assumes that after you say the oath, you will be telling the truth. So they dont need to determine if your lying or not so they can take that variable out of the decision the jury makes. They are putting trust in you holding your values.

zk50 x erk wrote:Thats not what that phrase means.


The phrase can be interpreted in different way but that doesnt make sense.

They wont really know whether or not your lying so how would they punish you for it?

The point of the oath is that YOU are holding something valuable to YOURSELF at stake. By lying, you loose that stake. For christians lying infront of god like that is horrible. so in saying that oath your saying you wont lie because if you do...you loose the stake which is breaking your promise with god.

This. In other words, even if they could force to read it, they wouldn't because your word doesn't mean anything when promised to something you don't believe in.

I thought most Stanists don't really view themselves as Satanists?
That most just believe in the ideals or something like that, but consider themselves Agnostics or Athiests?

zk50 x erk wrote:Thats not what that phrase means.


The phrase can be interpreted in different way but that doesnt make sense.

They wont really know whether or not your lying so how would they punish you for it?

The point of the oath is that YOU are holding something valuable to YOURSELF at stake. By lying, you loose that stake. For christians lying infront of god like that is horrible. so in saying that oath your saying you wont lie because if you do...you loose the stake which is breaking your promise with god.

zk who are you responidng too?
court is about finding whos guilty or not, if you lyed, someones guilty
god will be the only one who has mercy on you.makes sense

nowadays only the most firm god beleiver will let the oath keep them from lying anyway.

That is actually a newer form of satanism developed in the 1980s? Not sure about the time period exactly but in that form of satanism satan is viewed more as a symbol than a god. So what exactly is the point of an atheist saying the oath then?

Bla125 wrote:So what exactly is the point of an atheist saying the oath then?

This is what we're trying to say. They won't make you say an oath, that you're not commited to, because it means nothing to you.

My teacher made a big deal about this because I asked this same question in class once, he said that they will just consider everything you say as a lie unless you say the oath.

Responding to you hen.

They wont know if your lying or not. They assume what your saying is the truth because you took the oath. Your not hooked up to a lie detector in the court room so they wouldnt know either way. But by you making the promise to tell the truth....they take your word.

Bla....you still say an oath....just you dont say it to god.....The point of the oath is that your promising to tell the truth while in the courtroom. You hold your word against what you believe in. And by you saying the oath...they believe you.

Bla125 wrote:My teacher made a big deal about this because I asked this same question in class once, he said that they will just consider everything you say as a lie unless you say the oath.

Then your teacher is wrong. Maybe you could tell them that you don't believe in God before you start, and see if they have an alternate oath? I'm sure they have one.

So it's more of a I give you my word type of a thing, which brings me back to why they have the word god in there. Religion isn't even supposed to be a part of court so why have it? It's not going to mean anything to an atheist and since religion isn't supposed to be important they shouldn't ask you what you believe in.

Bob...they do.

Its the same oath but without the "so help me god" included.

And that brings me back to a point I made earlier. You tell them basically "hey I dont believe in God...Im not going to say this part of the oath because it doesnt apply."

Bla...religion is not part of the court. Its just the way of them making you hold something important to you at risk if you dont tell the truth.

And you seem to be skipping over everything Ive been saying. Because I gave the fact that you DONT HAVE TO SAY THE LAST PART OF IT.

zk50 x erk wrote:Bob...they do.

Its the same oath but without the "so help me god" included.

And that brings me back to a point I made earlier. You tell them basically "hey I dont believe in God...Im not going to say this part of the oath because it doesnt apply."

I thought so.

Why not make everyone else have to say that they want the so help me god part in it? Isn't that kind of discriminating, making some people go through the extra trouble but not others?

I haven't skipped over everything you have been saying either.

Bla125 wrote:Why not make everyone else have to say that they want the so help me god part in it? Isn't that kind of discriminating, making some people go through the extra trouble but not others?

I haven't skipped over everything you have been saying either.

As I've said before, this country was pretty much founded on Christianity; it think it kinda goes on the lines that they had more power first, so they pretty much got to dictate the rules, and they've stuck. I don't really see why you hate it so much though. It's not like someone's going to melt or something because they did/didn't read it.

They have you say it if you want to. Its you putting something you hold important at stake. Christians say it because at that point, they will be risking being with god or not. With chirstians nothing on earth really matters....the only thing that matters is if you deserve to be with god or not. So by including that....if they lie to get out of jail...they wont be with god after they die while if they tell the truth and get sent to jail...they still have the potential to be with god because they didnt lie to his face.

That was back then though, but now everyone is supposed to be equal and back to what I said in like my 4th post gay marriage is another thing that should be legal. Can you really explain how that isn't discrimination? The point I'm trying to make here is that the government can really suck sometimes and it pisses me off.

The government is just a group of human beings like you and me, and just like you and me, there are beliefs that they don't agree with; because they are all from a much older age group, more of them were raised as Christians, and they have more power. As this age group comes in, the government will probably become more lenient to things like that.

It's violating the first amendment to not make gay marriage legal.

They are working on changing the legislation governing that. Its not "oh hey this doesnt make sense so its changed" but rather It takes years to do this kind of thing. In some states it is legal. Others is not because they havent really gone too deep into it.

Bla125 wrote:It's violating the first amendment to not make gay marriage legal.

It is, in a way. I don't disagree with you. I believe that homosexuals have the right to marry whomever they truly love, because it's their life, not mine. As long as they don't cause trouble, or get me involved in any way, I don't really care. If it was my decision, I'd let them be free, but it isn't, and because I'm not homosexual, not trying to be an ass or anything, but I find it difficult to care, because I find it difficult to empathize. To people that have grown up learning that homosexuality is disgusting, and a horrendous type of crime, they naturally are going to do everything in their power to keep them from having any rights. This applies to anything. For instance, if I had a child, kept them sheltered, and told them that all people with blue eyes were evil, ever since they could understand what I was telling them, then set them loose into the world, and they gained a lot of power, chances are, they would do everything they could to control blue-eyed people however they were possibly allowed to. It's a sad fact of life, but young of any being are easily programmed to the will of their guardian.

They should go deep into it, it's peoples lives we are talking about here. It's like them saying "oh hey look that guy is a slave, oh well lets wait a few more years and then we can take care of it."

You dont realize how long stuff like this takes. It has to be voted on then voted on again. And even before they vote they have to discuss it. They discuss it for years because if they dont, and something happens they didnt expect would then they will be the cause. Sure...not much can happen with gay marriage but its just the way it works.


Even court cases can take a long time to settle. They have to get all the facts on the table before they can make a decision.

Bla125 wrote:They should go deep into it, it's peoples lives we are talking about here. It's like them saying "oh hey look that guy is a slave, oh well lets wait a few more years and then we can take care of it."

It's not that extreme though; gay couples can still live together, not technically married, and just consider themselves married. The state can refuse the right to marry them, but they still can be together; it's not like they'll be killed/fined if caught (that I know of)

I know what you guys are saying but it's just stupid that it's taking so long. And religion is obviously playing a part in this which shouldn't be happening.

In a rather ironic time to say this, you're preaching to the choir Bla. That's just the way things go. I want to hunt one of every animal on Earth by the time I die, but those little treehuggers will never see it happen, so I just kinda have to let that dream die. It'll eventually change, just remember, time is nothing, time never started, and will never stop, so there's no reason to hurry anything, unless it is of utmost importance.