Recent Posts
SeC Gaming
the Lounge
New Lounge Topic
New Gaming Topic
We've moved to Discord

You are not connected. Please login or register

 » The Lounge » Debate 3

Debate 3

+7
Frostbyrn
Duan
JrTapia1991
The Adli Corporation
Keyser Söze
Ron Swanson
Pariah
11 posters

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1Debate 3 Empty Debate 3 2012-03-07, 17:47

Pariah

Pariah

I decided to abandon the "moral" clause this time around, and focus more on the nature of morality itself. This one will turn out pretty philosophical if it takes off, so feel free to post about anything.


Is morality absolute or relative?

Basically, are the same things "wrong" for everyone, or is it individual?

2Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 17:51

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

THere is no clear cut on this, because some things are just wrong alltogether (baby murder, cannibleism) whereas sometimes things like murder or stealing are more situational as to how bad they are.

So I would say its more of a relative thing.

3Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 18:08

Pariah

Pariah

Terry Corp. wrote:THere is no clear cut on this, because some things are just wrong alltogether (baby murder, cannibleism) whereas sometimes things like murder or stealing are more situational as to how bad they are.

So I would say its more of a relative thing.

If I might make two counterpoints:

Baby murder: the old "you're in hiding, theres a crying baby and soldiers/nazis/murderers are coming" debate.

Cannibalism: two men in a plane crash, without food. They can't reach civilisation together, to survive one must kill the other and eat him. Is this wrong? or is it just survival?


though all in all, I totally agree with you, morality is more subjective than objective.

4Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 18:31

Keyser Söze

Keyser Söze

Relative.

Morale is a human construction and thus is relative to our view on our surroundings.

5Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 18:35

The Adli Corporation

The Adli Corporation

Relative.

also, mostly meaningless.

6Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 18:45

JrTapia1991

JrTapia1991

Dance Hall Derelict wrote:Relative.

Morale is a human construction and thus is relative to our view on our surroundings.

7Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 22:48

Duan

Duan

once again you managed to find one that everyone agrees upon

relative, for pretty much the same reasons previously stated

8Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 22:49

Pariah

Pariah

fucking hell, you people just never disagree.

9Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 22:56

Duan

Duan

because it is pretty obvious that it all depends on who you are

10Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-07, 23:10

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

Somethings are Absolute like Rape and Murder

Basically doing something to someone else that they dont want you to do will always be wrong

Everything else is relative

11Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 09:25

Keyser Söze

Keyser Söze

Frostbyrn wrote:Somethings are Absolute like Rape and Murder

Basically doing something to someone else that they dont want you to do will always be wrong

Everything else is relative

But even this is relative to our evolved worldview that people should have the right that stems from your sentence, the right to not have things done to them that they do not wish to have done.

Even so, we baptize our children, our governments demand absurd taxes that the vox populi doesn't agree on, etc. While they are may be different extremes, they are both examples of people being forced to do something. The first is even a religious traditional, where religion can be seen as a cultural aspect of our lives as humans.

So I propose: Is not our culture relative to how we perceive things? If so, are actions derived from cultural instances not relative to our consciousness as well?

In nature animals kill other animals, for survival. I'm sure that the prey does not want to be eaten, yet nothing is perceived wrong with this instance.

12Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 13:31

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

Pariah wrote:fucking hell, you people just never disagree.

I disagree with this statement! and I am willing to make a 4 page fight about it!

Round 1 fight!

13Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 14:36

Keyser Söze

Keyser Söze

Flawless victory.

14Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 14:42

The Adli Corporation

The Adli Corporation

Terry Corp. wrote:
Pariah wrote:fucking hell, you people just never disagree.

I disagree with this statement! and I am willing to make a 4 page fight about it!

Round 1 fight!

no you're not!

15Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 15:18

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

16Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 15:52

Manila Plague

Manila Plague

Frostbyrn wrote:Somethings are Absolute like Rape and Murder

Basically doing something to someone else that they dont want you to do will always be wrong

Everything else is relative

it's all relative frosty

remove our sociological constructs and those two scenario would not be morally wrong

look at pack animal behavior for example

17Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 16:46

Pariah

Pariah

Ok, comparing humans to animals now. In my view, the entire concept of "right" and "wrong" is stupid. Humans have created that to justify some choices and condemn others. Animals don't give a fuck about right and wrong, they kill eachother for food and necessity. I really doubt that morality even exists in some circumstances, though others might define it as existent. To me, killing one who threatens you is completely justified. If I did it, I would probably not have a problem with it. Then again, I have noted sociopathic tendencies, so it might change the result.

18Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:05

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

I think its wrong to say that right and wrong don't exist. They do. Just the paramiters of what constitutes right and wrong change based on a situation.

The ability to judge right and wrong is what makes us human.

19Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:08

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

Guess its all relative then Very Happy

But for the second line I was talking about stuff that directly affects them like in person

20Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:13

Siren

Siren

I think it's relative, and it changes by your surroundings, who you are, and what you're exposed to. Personally I think everyone originally has part in their heart that says "being kind is right, murder/rape/judging others is wrong, but based on the surrounding factors this changes...so I guess in that sense you could argue that it's partially absolute....

21Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:14

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

I dont think there is any situation I could find rape right

22Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:23

Duck

Duck

Morality is not relative. Actions that detract from the well being of your fellow man are immoral from a human sense, and the human sense is all that matters.

Shooting a big laser and blowing up the earth is wrong for every human. Murdering someone that is good to more people than they are bad to is wrong. Murdering a baby when nazis are coming to kill you is not wrong because the alternative is the baby AND you being killed.

23Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:49

Pariah

Pariah

Frostbyrn wrote:I dont think there is any situation I could find rape right
point.

Duck, thank you for finally disagreeing. But my counterpoint. What if the most moral person in the world just suddenly turns bad? what if some saintly moron decides to start shooting and killing? Would killing him be wrong? Technically, he's helped more people than he's hurt.

24Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:52

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

Pariah wrote:
Frostbyrn wrote:I dont think there is any situation I could find rape right
point.

Duck, thank you for finally disagreeing. But my counterpoint. What if the most moral person in the world just suddenly turns bad? what if some saintly moron decides to start shooting and killing? Would killing him be wrong? Technically, he's helped more people than he's hurt.

We already know what happens its a comic book called Irredeemable

25Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:57

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

Pariah wrote:
Frostbyrn wrote:I dont think there is any situation I could find rape right
point.

Duck, thank you for finally disagreeing. But my counterpoint. What if the most moral person in the world just suddenly turns bad? what if some saintly moron decides to start shooting and killing? Would killing him be wrong? Technically, he's helped more people than he's hurt.

I don't think you have to consider what people have done in the past if what they are doing right now is wrong. I don't care if its the Pope, but rape/murder.

26Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 17:59

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

You wouldnt murder Hitler?

I can think of some situations where murder is ok

But absolutely none at all for rape

27Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:00

Pariah

Pariah

Frostbyrn wrote:You wouldnt murder Hitler?

I can think of some situations where murder is ok

But absolutely none at all for rape

Same stance really. Rape is seizing someones freedom, and thats just completely beyond what I consider permissible. But warranted murder seems fine in context.

28Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:03

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

I wouldn't call killing a war criminal a murder personally. When you say murder, I think of some random dude killing some other random dude for random reason x. If you kill a murderer, I wouldn't call it a murder personally.

29Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:04

Duck

Duck

point.

Duck, thank you for finally disagreeing. But my counterpoint. What if the most moral person in the world just suddenly turns bad? what if some saintly moron decides to start shooting and killing? Would killing him be wrong? Technically, he's helped more people than he's hurt.

I said helping more people than he is hurting, in the present. Really, that's just a runaround way of saying more people want him dead for just reasons than alive.

30Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:35

Manila Plague

Manila Plague

you missed my point

31Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:38

Pariah

Pariah

sorry plague, care to elaborate a bit more?

32Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:43

Manila Plague

Manila Plague

not you.... frosty

the point i'm trying to make is what is right and wrong is all relative

if you look at the animal kingdom rape and murder is a regular thing and is essential for survival

i'm just agreeing with the rest of the people saying it relative and giving my perspective on this debate

33Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:45

Pariah

Pariah

ah my mistake.

little fact about the animal kingdom; there is no such thing as consensual sex in the chicken world.

34Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 18:48

Frostbyrn

Frostbyrn

Ducks are serial rapists the female of the species evolved special vaginas to deal with it

Thank you cracked Very Happy

35Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-08, 19:17

Manila Plague

Manila Plague

which is why wrong is relative

before people evolved rape and murder were a common thing and i'm not talking about cavemen

look at the middle-ages for example or how some societies treat women currently

36Debate 3 Empty Re: Debate 3 2012-03-09, 01:20

batonpass

batonpass

Giving somebody your fruit snacks is "good".
Facepainting somebody's face with a steak knife is "bad".

We can all agree on this.
Dissenters may suck my left nut.



Last edited by Sinners on 2012-03-09, 01:21; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : your turn BEN)

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

 » The Lounge » Debate 3

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum