[BF3] Ever feel like the semi auto DMR's are too weak?

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Balance I can understand, they are magazine fed, rapid fire semi auto rifles. It makes sense that their damage is lower than that of a bolt action.

Balance > Realism

There are times in BF3 though that I feel that they're just too weak to be able to be used effectively, even at semi long range. low bullet velocity really hurts them when trying to hit moving targets, unlike their bolt action big brothers.

Arguably, what I've found, is that they are best used when you have a red dot optic slapped on them. Sound suppressors? Forget it, all of the sniper rifles pretty much become worthless. The DMR's especially so, they already have painfully slow bullet velocity already, placing a sound suppressor on them halves on top of lowering their already pitiful damage.

They don't even seem to function very well as a suppressive tool. Can't count how many times I've had a guy in my sights shooting at my teammates, shoot a few rounds at him and he just turns around and laughs at me while he mows me down in a hail of automatic M16 pro pipe goodness.

The question is, how do you balance something like this without making them OP? The only thing I can think of is perhaps improve the bullet velocity so that hitting distant moving targets is easier, perhaps pushing out their max damage range? There is a delicate balance that must be played here I think, but the fact of the matter is, the DMR' simply do not feel powerful enough to fulfill the role where they are supposed to be filling, that being the tiny middle ground between where bolt actions and assault rifles are the most effective.

Let's face it, it's not very hard to kill other players at extended ranges with an AR or a carbine for that matter. The amount of time it takes for someone using a DMR to actually line up a target in most cases, they are suppressed or are dead due to the much more efficient carbine and assault rifles.

Now the answer to this IMO is not to nerf assault rifles, but to improve on aspects of the DMR's themselves.

As it is, the only decent DMR that I see is the M39 EBR, simply because it has a slightly faster bullet velocity than all the rest. Again, time to target I think would greatly improve the performance of the DMR rifles in general.

Case in point, the M16A3 has a bullet velocity of 650mps (meters per second) while the Mk11 has only 550mps, so even if the DMR player was to get the first round off, if they're anywhere beyond 14m he/she must get 3 rounds on target to make a kill if they are aiming at center mass.

The M16A3 has a ROF of 800RPM's while the Mk11 of course being a semi auto rifle has a much lower ROF of 260RPM's.

So the M16A3 can get more rounds on target, at similar ranges, therefore has a higher amount of DPS.

"But that's their purpose, they're assault rifles, it's like trying to compare apples to oranges"

True, but hear me out. The problem I'm seeing here, is that AR' fulfill the role better than the DMR's, why would I choose any of the DMR's over an Assault rifle when the AR can do the job of the DMR but better while still having the capability to be extremely effective at medium and short range as well?

There simply is no place for the DMR from what I can tell sadly. Too little damage to effectively counter AR's, but too slow bullet velocity to be effective at greater ranges beyond 150-200m + the damage drop off where at those ranges you need to get 3-4 rounds on target for a kill.

I don't know, I hope they find a way to address this in BF4. As it is right now, I don't feel like I'm playing effectively as a DMR. I try to follow my team around, hang back a little, but I'm constantly outgunned by AR's and Carbines even at medium to medium long range engagements.

It's a shame, since I want to play as a recon player and support my team with the TUG's and so on, but due to the nature of the game, it's really really hard sometimes.

Then again, it could be me, and that I suck with semi autos. Needless to say, I think the DMR's certainly need to be looked at and worked on. Would be nice to have something in the Recon arsenal that would allow for more aggressive gameplay without us having to resort to switching to an SMG or the SKS (Which I do not count as DMR for that matter)

I remember really liking them back in the beta but then didn't care for them at all in the regular game because of all the problems you described. Barely see anybody using them either too. If somebody is using a semi auto it's always the SKS which I like, I think it said I was top 1% for kills with it . I'd take a bolt action over the semi auto too lol.

The hit detection seemed really off with the dmr's alot of the time,plus it seems they're extremely vulnerable to suppression (even with coverage perk with I play with on 99.9% of time). I'll be aiming right at somebody's chest and it doesn't register. And like you said,don't bother with suppressors lol. M417 being the worst of the bunch. Although I did kill an entire enemy team hipfiring it with the laser once in the building on A at metro conquest

Agreed, their over all DPS is too low to compete. You have the burst damage that you get from high ROF or simply automatic weapons in general that will defeat the DMR's in medium to semi long range combat. Then you have the spike damage of the Bolt actions that will defeat them at longer ranges, let's not even take into account the difference in actual velocity of the round itself.

The only bolt action rifle, that has a slower bullet velocity than any of the DMR's is the M40, which has a B/V of 490mps (M40) that barely beats the SKS in terms of B/V by 50mps ouch! The one exception to this is the SV98 which actually has a slightly lower mps when compared to say the SVD, that being the SV98 has a 520mps, while the SVD has 530mps, the lower velocity is made up by the fact that the SV98 of course hits much harder and is more effective at longer ranges (OHK at close range is also very nice)

If not an increase in actually bullet speed, make it so that the maximum damage range is further out. as it is right now, it's a 3-4 shot to kill at anything beyond 75 meters (A crap ton of drop also really hurts them I think).

There simply isn't any reason to use them from what I can see (at least in their intended role) when all the other weapons are simply better in every way.

im not going to read that text right now (its 1am) but i do feel that the semi-autos lack punch

I like using them at assault rifle range on large maps with an acog or red dot. But I agree the bullet travel time could stand to be decreased. Also they seem to still suffer increased suppression from enemies like the bolt actions, which really sucks when the rof is so low. I am my aim right on someone's head but since they started shooting at me the bullet goes off target even though i'm aiming correctly and I'll be dead before the gun will fire again.

I'm not going to bother to read that.
I'm just going to mention that I've seen several servers lately with the ******y rule of
-Semi-auto snipers must use 7x scopes or greater or you'll be kicked.

So I'd say there are a bunch of crybaby, whiners that feel it's OP.

Very true on all counts. Granted on PC I've never encountered a server that bans them, I can see it happening, especially on console.

Suppression really screws recon players, even more so when every shot needs to connect in order for us to make a kill with the semi autos. What drives me nuts is the fact that I can instantly be suppressed by a small burst of AR or MG fire, but all 7+ of my rounds don't seem to do jack squat to my target. Shooting near them or even hitting them, it makes no difference from what I've experienced.

If I want to suppress someone, i have to pretty much dump the entire damn magazine, and even that is a 50/50 chance of suppressing my target.

I don't mind the suppression system when it's actually working, but there are so many bugs with it that it's ridiculous. I think if it was implemented in a better fashion, then maybe it would work.

@Frost, but think about it, you don't play BF like you would say in paintball. You are more reckless, and aggressive, willing to take greater risks, this is especially true with the implementation of regenerating health, so even if so and so was firing at you from the other side of that rock, you can simply fire back without fear of death for the most part. I can't count how many times in the past that I'd be shooting at someone and they just went

"Lawls" Shoots back at me and somehow kills me. Suppression is fine on paper, but the way they implemented it into the game doesn't really work very well. It's an interesting idea, but something needs to be worked on in order to make it more viable and an actual tool that players can use, as opposed to something that just becomes a nuisance and handicaps players that actually have skill and as you've implied, don't just spray.

I hate the DMRs to be honest. I used to use the SKS often on small maps, since I could squeeze out three shot bursts without a problem, but it's become almost impossible to keep up. My recon class now uses shotguns, PDWs and bolt-action rifles.

I'd actually be completely in favor of nerfing the assault rifles a bit. They make the medic class insanely powerful, essentially making it a class that can regenerate health while using (arguably) the best weapons in the game. I've been killed by a medic on the railroad (on Noshahr obviously) before, right after spawning in below the crane. That shouldn't work.

I dont mind the suppression mechanic overall. It's supposed to simulate fear of actual dying which isn't actually present in video games. I just think it should be limited on weapons besides LMGs and not affect your actual accuracy, just be an effect you see on screen.

Duck wrote:I dont mind the suppression mechanic overall. It's supposed to simulate fear of actual dying which isn't actually present in video games. I just think it should be limited on weapons besides LMGs and not affect your actual accuracy, just be an effect you see on screen.

This I agree should I think would be good.

Perhaps make it a visual shake, or something like your aim isn't quite as steady? (That shake being of course is able to be compensated by the player)

Suppression as it stands takes control of the situation completely out of the hands of the player. I think perhaps by making it so that you waver (as you do in real life while trying to aim) you can compensate for it just as you do with recoil in the game.

That might be a fair means of keeping suppression in the game. While at very long ranges it will make you ineffective, at least at medium ranges you still have a chance instead of having your assault rifle suddenly becoming a shotgun.

I like slapping a 3.4 sight and silencer on semi auto sniper rifles when attacking in rush. I do just fine with the bullet drop, you just need to get used to it I suppose.

I've usually have a lot of luck with semi autos. They suffer a little too much from suppression but other than that I feel like they are pretty good.

I don't know, it just seems like for the ranges they are intended to be used at, they feel under powered. I'll keep giving them a shot and see how I do. My SPM and K/D will definitely suffer for this.

Yeah I use mine as a mid to CQ rifle, so that might be the difference. Its too hard to hit targets enough at long range to use them in that manner.

Hank Hill wrote:Yeah I use mine as a mid to CQ rifle, so that might be the difference. Its too hard to hit targets enough at long range to use them in that manner.

Which kind of goes against the way it's supposed to be used IMO. You'll always get owned by the guy using an AR if it's a straight up fight at that distance.

Who knows, it's quite possible because I also play solo a lot as of late, and don't trust my team mates to watch out for me that I'm having such a hard time. The Semi autos are best used in situations where you have back up from other players.

I'll try sticking closer to the front from now on and with my squad instead of hanging back farther spotting stuff. Maybe I'll have better luck then.

There's definitely a niche area to use battle rifles. They're very good for killing very quickly for between medium and long range. But if someone starts shooting at you first from medium range with an automatic gun it's hard to overcome the suppression.

when I use em I stay at medium range. I actually thought they were pretty perfect back in the beta,they killed quickly but fired rather slowly and limited mag size. It's pretty much the only class I used back in the beta,then in the regular game if you're not running medic zombie squad you're kinda screwed because so many do.


I try em out with like a kobra or 3.4x scope and have decent luck with them

Starting to get the hang of them, been trying to stick closer to my squadmates as of late, only thing that pisses me off is the suppression.

I see why people hate it, and honestly, I'm starting to hate it too. I had a guy literally point blank range, I fired off nearly half a magazine center mass only to have my rounds disappear as if I had never shot them. THAT right there is bullshit, I sure hope DICE fixes that, and while it took me a long while to finally get to this point, I could not agree more, that the suppression mechanic is absolute bullshit.

The idea is cool, but the implementation is flawed. I should have a chance to be able to defend myself, my gun should remain as accurate as it was before I was suppressed. Vision blur and trouble with steadying aim I think would be fine, but making it so that I'm essentially firing wooden rounds out of my rifle is absolute crap.

Edit: Okay I officially retract my statement that DMR's feel under powered. When used correctly and when you have a good team, they are quite useful. I've got two videos showcasing this, granted I need to learn to play the objective a bit more when using them (Getting to be a little too selfish, but to be fair, I didn't have a lot of support from my squad, being forced to lone wolf it and all)

Needless to say, I'm finally getting the hang of knowing how much to lead, what distance is what and so on while using low powered optics.

You really have to be careful as a DMR player though, you tend to draw a lot of heat from other players after you've sniped them several times, especially with a semi auto. Suppression still sucks, but hit and run tactics typically seem to be what's keeping me alive. Stealth is also key, much more so with a semi auto I think, since the multiple shots tend to leave you vulnerable to return fire.

Unlike a bolt action (provided you've got good aim) you really need to pick and choose your targets, typically singling out one, or engaging opponents that are preoccupied with your team mates.

I'm starting to really enjoy them now. So I guess it ultimately came down to that I didn't know wtf I was doing with them. Got far too used to the bolt actions and their OHK damage and such, I was trying to treat the DMR's as something they were not, that being extended long range rifles.

I'll post some video's when I get the chance. I think I did pretty well these last few rounds for the most part.

As it's currently implemented, suppression is an awful mechanic imo. And yeah, the battle rifles are pretty eh, but I think that's a problem of the ARs and carbines being way too accurate at range.

Ante wrote:As it's currently implemented, suppression is an awful mechanic imo. And yeah, the battle rifles are pretty eh, but I think that's a problem of the ARs and carbines being way too accurate at range.

This, I think I mentioned that before in an earlier post. There really isn't much of a reason to use the DMR's other than for their 2 shot to kill at moderate close ranges and OHK to the head. The AR's and Carbines are much more flexible, easier to use in CQC and can do most things better than the DMR's.

I will say though, that extra accuracy DOES come in handy, I was playing Alborz Mountain earlier, and was very surprised at how effective I was at eliminating targets that were using assault rifles and LMG's.

I've never played that map before, and while I attribute it to the fact that I had stealth (no lens flare) and tactics on my end, I can't say that was the only reason I did well. I should have been easily outgunned a number of times.

Needless to say though, the regular rifles, I feel need to have a reduction in accuracy at range. At least in burst and automatic settings. It just does seem that many people can simply burst or go full auto and kill me well beyond what should effective with said firing techniques. Suppression also needs to be fixed, so many BS deaths because of being suppressed and having absolutely zero chance of fighting back.